MM Lee outlines two challenges for Singapore to undertake
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I think Lee Hsien Loong is going to make a push and sell the same propaganda crap of Lee Kuan Yew in the coming national day rally. Most likely the father timed it to prepare public opinion for the same drivel.
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Originally posted by Racism:
oh bite me.
seriously, if you're that pissed about LKY and his bullshit, then why the hell are you living in singapore? unless you've migrated and still actively participate in sgforums, then you should start appreciating what he has done.
So all who are not happy with the ways of LKY must migrate as you commanded or said. Wake up la! If you cannot get your facts right then you are in no position to tell people to migrate. Don't waste space in this thread to post nuisance. -
Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I think Lee Hsien Loong is going to make a push and sell the same propaganda crap of Lee Kuan Yew in the coming national day rally. Most likely the father timed it to prepare public opinion for the same drivel.
I believe so.The father and son really jiak leow bee, useless, seems liabilities to singapore.
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
May be LHL is a foreign talent and not his son.
Ya... initially malaysian mah...
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他 LEE JIA 当 家
so we LL
CANNOT PROTEST! CAN ALSO NO USE!
GE COMING VERY SOON
HI HI HI
WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENED
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Who is LKY ?
What was the history behind the formation of the PAP ?
The PAP was started by two persons - Dr Toh Chin Chye and Dr Goh Keng Swee on their return from London to Singapore(*1).
While in London as a student from 1949 to 1953, Toh Chin Chye led the anti-colonial group of Malayan students known as Malayan Forum. The Forum provided a place for native nationalists to debate and to examine the future of Malaya. Before returning to Singapore, Goh Keng Swee, the then chairman of the Forum, nominated Toh to succeed him.
In his early years, Toh was very much a socialist and close friend of Dr Goh Keng Swee during his days in London. Together, they took up the political cause and came back to Singapore in 1953.
Later, Dr Goh, Kenny Byrne and Dr Toh formed the Council for Joint Action with Lee Kuan Yew as the legal advisor.
That was how LKY got involved in union politics. During then, LKY was also the legal advisor to Samad Ismail (editor of Utusan Melayu and ex-detainee), Lim Chin Siong and Devan Nair.
The few of them would always meet in the “basement” of LKY’s house but with special attention from the “Special Branch” (old version of ISD), they would always be watched and risk being detained without trial.
Toh did not belong to the first wave of founding members who met at LKY’s house; he was still in England when the “basement group” first met.
However, after Dr Toh joined the group, it was Dr Toh who proposed the formation of an open and legal political party to champion the cause of nationalism and independence of Malaya.
“Sometimes, I wonder what would have happened to our basement group had I not pushed for it to register as a political party. What if I had not come back to Singapore? You know, in 1953, I was advised to go to USA to continue my research. If I had gone that route, would anyone have started the PAP? Would the basement crowd have remained in Kuan Yew’s house? Would it have come together at all?” – Dr Toh Chin Chye.
Would Singapore have been different if Dr Toh Chin Chye had accepted nomination to be the Prime Minister on at least two occassions ?
On both occassions, he declined the position in support of LKY, who had tendered his resignation at the behest of disgruntled party members - and on both occassions, Dr Toh gave his unwavering support to LKY in the interest of the PAP.
On at least two occasions, Toh Chin Chye’s name was floated as an alternative Prime Minister to LKY. In 1961, they lost two successive by-elections to Ong Eng Guan and David Marshall.
On 17 July 1961, Lee Kuan Yew wrote a letter to Dr Toh, Chairman of the CEC. He wrote that the trade unions, the Middle Road Crowd wanted him to resign and they wanted Dr Toh to take over as the Prime Minister.
Dr Toh read the letter to all the Cabinet Ministers and CEC members during a Cabinet meeting. All who were present were stunned. Yong Nyuk Lin asked Dr Toh, “Should we accept his resignation?” Dr Toh replied, “No,” because it will divide the government and it will appear to the people of Singapore that they are being unsteady. So they declined the resignation.
Dr Toh could very well make himself as the Prime Minister, but he didn’t.
In 1964, in the aftermath of race riots in Singapore and Malaysia, LKY offered again to resign as PM in an attempt to ease the strained relations between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.
In the wake of certain extremist demands from UMNO (United Malays National Organization) to arrest LKY for the ostensible reason of preventing him from causing more political and ethnic tension within Malaysia, Dr Toh and his comrades stood by LKY.
If LKY was arrested and detained without trial, Dr Toh or Dr Goh might have been the next logical choice to become PM of Singapore.
Dr Toh’s support and ability to rally members behind LKY probably prevented the Malaysian government from arresting LKY.
Sadly, the PAP came first before the interests of Singaporeans.
Who is LKY ?
In the years during Colonial Rule and when Singapore was part of Malaysia, LKY was a strong advocate of Human Rights to Freedom of Assembly, Open Debate and the Exchange of Competitive Political Ideas, unfettered Press and Broadcast Media - as seen in his Parliamentary Speeches in the Singapore State Assembly when David Marshall was the Chief Minister of Singapore, and also in his speech in the Federal Parliament in Kuala Lumpur.
"But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed... If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought, and no excuse, whether of security, should allow a government to be deterred from doing what it knows to right, and what it must know to be right... "- Lee Kuan Yew, Legislative Assembly Debates April 27, 1955
"If we are to survive as a free democracy, then we must be prepared, in principle, to concede to our enemies - even those who do not subscribe to our views - as much(sic)constitutional rights as you concede yourself." - Lee Kuan Yew Legislative Assembly Debates Sept 21, 1955
"Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open, or is this a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas - novel, unorthodox, heresies, to established churches and established governments - where there is a constant contest for men's hearts and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, of what is in the national interests, or is it a closed society where the mass media - the newspapaers, the journals, publications, TV, radio - either bound by sound or by sight, or both sound and sight, men's minds are fed with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox political philosophy? That is the first question we asked ourselves. I would like to see minds stimulated and debate provoked, and truth refined and crystallized out of the conflict of different evidence and views. I, therefore, welcome every and any opportunity of a chance to agree, or to dissent, in order that out of thesis comes synthesis - thesis, anti-major premise, anti-premise, synthesis, so we progress... I welcome every opportunity to meet members of the opposition, and so do members of my party, over the radio, over the television, university forums, public rallies. We never run away from the open encounter. If your ideas, your views cannot stand the challenge of criticism then they are too fragile and not sturdy enough to last. I am talking of the principle of the open society, the open debate, ideas, not intimidation, persuasion not coercion... Sir, the basic fundamentals we asked ourselves...is whether the duties of the Minister of Information and Broadcasting are to produce closed minds or open minds, because these instruments - the mass media, the TV, the radio - can produce either the open minds receptive to ideas and ideals, a democratic system of life, or closed and limited. But I know that the open debate is a painful process for closed minds...But let me make this point: that 5 million adult minds in Malaysia cannot be closed - definitely not in the lifetime of the people in authority. It is not possible because whatever the faults of the colonial system, and there are many...they generated the open mind, the inquiring mind." - Lee Kuan Yew Dec 18, 1964 Malaysian Parliamentary Debates
What changed the PAP political idealism that was so eloquently expressed by LKY after Singapore was kicked out of Malaysia ?
LKY's arrests must have been considered as already evidenced by the publicity given in the speeches made by Malaysian Politicians from UMNO and even from the MCA, when both parties saw LKY's challenge to the political status quo as destructive to what was agreed between Tunku and LKY before the merger was completed.
Who was holding the fort during the critical days immediately after the devastating events of Singapore being kicked out of Malaysia ?
Is LKY the real pillar of strength that propaganda has made him out to be ?
Is a mentally weak person fit to lead a nation, when he depends on Machiavelli's ways to rule and force the political process to his will ?
Is Singapore what it is today from his singular vision and ability to mobilise people ?
With the first generation Old Guard removed from the PAP and from Government, now LKY reign supreme, and the remaining surviving members in their old age left impotent by the gag order imposed from the Official Secrets Act which they have signed acceptance while in Public Office.
Singaporeans remain anxious to view whatever honest biographies of the historical events that transpired as viewed and recalled from the different minds of those who loved and continue to have hope for Singapore.
History is being re-written to glorify the LKY image as THE Founding Father of Singapore and he do not seem to be too inmodest in allowing such accolades to be continued.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Something's wrong with the old guy... he expects FT to support our parents when he give jobs to FT and not us... very funny... I do not see FT support those elderly that do not have children to support them now, where would I forsee that they would do so in the future?
there are many FT who had settled in Singapore are actually very much involved in social work here, one example is the HK club, or whatever they call.
and ironically, many elderly singaporean are actually not without children, just that their true blue Singapore born children are not supporting them.
don't think we should expect others to support our parents. as it is, we need to have foreign nurses to take care of our sick make singaporean look very pathetic now.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I wonder how Japanese, Koreans, Russians etc do business in China.
They speak Chinese, read Chinese, write Chinese.
Go to Shanghai you will see americans arguing with cashiers in Chinese; go to 哈尔滨, and even beijing �璃厂 you will see Russians traders bargaining in Chinese, go to 丹东 you will find all the Koreans speaking Chinese that put many Singaporean Chinese to shame..
Do you think Chinese will speak Japanese to do business in China?
and of course this is different when Chinese come to Singapore to do business, they will be expected to speak English, Mandarin, Malay, or Tamil, these are our official language.
ho, and when you hear Singaporean speaking Chinese, you know straight away that is Singlish, the ji tak ji tak mandarin.
if you don't like LKY, all you can say is "we don't need him to tell us what is already known." but, do you know?
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
That bastard Lee Kuan Yew messed up the entire society until it doesn't feel like home anymore.
These are the good deeds of Lee Kuan Yew.
Fucking senile mother fucking bastard.
yup, it dun feel homely anymorewen i was young, i also think this is a good place to live
wat has become of this place, an creation of the gahmen?
- educator suing a forum
- rogue laywers
- politicians suing others and now asking to be united
the preaching of a gracious society was just mere lip service
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Ya... initially malaysian mah...Still is?
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solution for aging population n declining birth rate of sg is to import in more immigrants???
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solution for aging population n declining birth rate of sg is to import in more immigrants???
What sort of fucking solution is that?
It creates more problems in other areas.
please use your brain Lee Kuan Yew, we don't pay you highest pay in the world to tell us everything can be solved by flooding island with foreign aliens.
Use your blane use your blane use your blane Lee Kuan Yew.
Senile old bastard with idiotic fucking brain.
We must criticise Lee Hsien Loong regime, criticise Lee Kuan Yew, criticise PAP.
Don't be afraid to criticise Lee Hsien Loong regime, criticise Lee Kuan Yew, criticise PAP. -
Originally posted by Georgetan884:
他 LEE JIA 当 家
so we LL
CANNOT PROTEST! CAN ALSO NO USE!
GE COMING VERY SOON
HI HI HI
WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENED
GE will be after the IRs are open for business, it's called the political economy.
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MM lee outlines are just slap in hsi own 2 child policy in the 70s 80s. now they say babies not enough?
in australia, the immigration has tighten and immigrants are demanded to pass some basic profiency of english.
did we say we demanded our immigrants to speak oxford english? that typical of PAP to twist our words to justify its own policy. if our immigrants cant speak basic english, how are they going to communicate with the malays or indians? if they cant communicate then how can they have social integration into singapore community? how to build up racial harmony in years to come?
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Why foreign aliens become citizens no need speak english while the dialect chinese, malays and tamils in singapore forced to speak english?
I don't understand Lee Kuan Yew's fucking logic.
They don't even need serve NS, but local forced to serve.
We must watch Lee Kuan Yew closely, this is a man with a track record of implementing rubbish programs in singapore that messes up society.
He also has a record of talking complete rubbish and nonsense about development of human beings.
Why such a man is still in power influencing policy is a disgrace to our country.
We must criticise Lee Hsien Loong regime, criticise Lee Kuan Yew, criticise PAP.
Don't be afraid to criticise Lee Hsien Loong regime, criticise Lee Kuan Yew, criticise PAP. -
Cos afflicted with megalomania lor - unfortunately Singaporeans are slowly but surely being relegated to second class citizens lor.
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As I read all these posts about lky these days, something comes to mind - will life in sg be better without LKY?
We are oppressed, really!
I think lky ought to apologise to us for the stop at 2 birth control policy. Bringing in more foreigners to solve the problem of falling birth rate does not help. Foreigners turn citizens will know how hard life is to cope with the constant increase in living costs to allow them to give birth to more children.
In whatever matters, singaporeans are always the ones to be pointed at by LKY, lhl and the members of the thunderstrike team. Never once they admit their mistakes, turn over a new leaf.
It is always the fault of Singaporeans, Singaporeans are easy target for ruling party to push blame to.
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May be we should issue a challenge for PAP to treat the residents of opposition wards equally as residents of their wards.
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Originally posted by pearlie27:
May be we should issue a challenge for PAP to treat the residents of opposition wards equally as residents of their wards.
The question is are they really treating residents of their wards well? -
In whatever matters, singaporeans are always the ones to be pointed at by LKY, lhl and the members of the thunderstrike team.
Fantagf, it is good that you criticised Lee Kuan Yew , Lee Hsien Loong and PAP regime but I think that the criticism can be improved by using the full name of Lee Kuan Yew, Lee Hsien Loong etc, not just use initials such as LKY, lhl.
We should use the proper full names as in:
In whatever matters, singaporeans are always the ones to be pointed at by Lee Kuan Yew, Lee Hsien Loong and the members of the thunderstrike team.
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Originally posted by mlmersrlosers:
solution for aging population n declining birth rate of sg is to import in more immigrants???
Million-dollar solution by Singapore's own unique million-dollar minister hor, don't play play hor -
Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Cos afflicted with megalomania lor - unfortunately Singaporeans are slowly but surely being relegated to second class citizens lor.
Singaporeans was already second class citizens long long time ago. Now the unofficial classification is as follows:
ruling class
elite class
ang mo / expatriate
new migrants
foreign talents
singaporeans
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Originally posted by reyes:
MM lee outlines are just slap in hsi own 2 child policy in the 70s 80s. now they say babies not enough?
in australia, the immigration has tighten and immigrants are demanded to pass some basic profiency of english.
did we say we demanded our immigrants to speak oxford english? that typical of PAP to twist our words to justify its own policy. if our immigrants cant speak basic english, how are they going to communicate with the malays or indians? if they cant communicate then how can they have social integration into singapore community? how to build up racial harmony in years to come?
if our immigrants cant speak basic english, how are they going to communicate with the malays or indians? if they cant communicate then how can they have social integration into singapore community? how to build up racial harmony in years to come?Good insight. Clearly, the govt is trapped between the rock and a hard place when comes to new migrant.
And we are not talking about Queen's English here. Even those who can speak English are bringing their brand of quaint, gibberish English that is anything but English.
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Singaporeans pay attention now - two challenges - so shirk at workplace, neglect your family, give up what works for u now, ... and allocate all your time, brains and what-have-u to deal with the Two challenges.
Otherwise, Singapore is a doomed cow!
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Just as LKY outlined our declining birthrate, highlighted the negative effect it has on our economy, he drawn Japan into the picture as example of a country facing declining birthrate and doing nothing about it.
But interesting enough, I saw programme in Channelnewsasia that went on length to describe how Japan is coping with the declining birthrate by turning to robotic technology. Japan is investing and researching into robotic technology to help it to cope with aging population.
Japan is not doing it, the simple and easy way - importing. Japan is doing it another way