Are we becoming Mohicans?
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SINGAPORE: Even after the millions spent on Baby Bonuses and other parenthood incentives, policy-makers are confounded by a problem that goes to the very heart of survival: Singaporeans are still not reproducing themselves.
And on Friday, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew reflected on this challenge at the National University of Singapore Society's (NUSS) dialogue on "Singapore and Singaporeans: A Quarter Century From Now".
In Singapore, he said, it is becoming a "lifestyle choice" for women past the age of 30 to stay single as they are well-travelled and have no one to worry about.
"My daughter is one of them. What can I do? When she was in her early 30s, my wife used to tell her, what you want is a 'MRS'. She did not think it was funny.
"Now she is 50-plus, her mother is bedridden, I'm on a pacemaker, I got this rambling house. Everything is looked after now. What happens if we are both not there?...
"She says, 'I'll look after myself'. But we know she has not been looking after herself all these years. When she went to Boston for training, her cooking was to just to put her salmon into the microwave."
Mr Lee added: "But that's life. It's a choice that she has made, and a choice that 30 per cent of our women are making. Who am I to complain? Society lives with the consequences it is making."
The problem that this trend creates: "Without new citizens and permanent residents, we are going to be the last of the Mohicans. We are going to disappear".
But immigrants bring their own challenges to a society.
Some Singaporean parents have complained about migrants entering schools and competing with local children. He urged parents: "Would you want them to compete against you or with you as part of the team? If you don't have them with you as part of your team, they will be on the Chinese and Indian team."
Some of these migrant students, he acknowledged, use Singapore as a stepping stone to other countries. So "why are we so stupid" in allowing this?
"Because more than half (of these students) do not make the grade to go to America, and the second tier is not bad for us."
Singapore needs to draw from a big talent pool beyond its own shores, "so that we can continue to punch above our weight. No other way".
"Would you want the pie to grow? You want a small pie with your children taking the last portion, or a big pie where you get a bigger portion, even though the talented person may get a bigger slice? That's life. If you are afraid of talent, you will not succeed."
One catch he foresees: Even as the second generation of today's immigrants become more Singaporean, one dubious habit they might also adopt, is to have only one child.
"So we got to make this breakthrough, otherwise we are going to have a constant problem.
"We got to get people to realise that if we don't have 2.1 (babies) to replace ourselves, we are always dependent."
Earlier in the evening, Mr Lee officially opened the new NUS Alumni Complex, which comprises the redeveloped NUSS Kent Ridge Guild House and Shaw Foundation Alumni House. -
The "Stop at 2" Policy was really successful.
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All this of course is due to Lee Kuan Yew's stop at 2 policy, now want to put the blame on Singaporeans. Never want to admit mistake.
This is typical of the old bastard.
Lee Kuan Yew, why you always act like wise man, but never admit your rubbish policies are all nothing but filth?
You ar, Lee Kuan Yew, I also don't know whether to pity you, laugh at you or give you a slap across your fucking face.
Stubborn like ox, die die insist on your own filth, never want to admit errors.
Bastard is bastard.
Want to talk like some wise dude, wah so wise.
Wo Pui!
Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui.
Singaporeans are still not reproducing themselves.
Time for merger?
I heard that state TV is selling the propaganda of economic union with Malaysia.
This is the first step of course.
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fuck lah...
this "greying population" shit is actually nonsense..
they think that everyone growing old automatically becomes infirm and invalid... forgetting that lots choose to work, lots choose to be active and are in good health..
there are more to the dynamics of growing old these days then the old simplified way of "collect pension and waste away"
and for the usual rabble-rousers like ah chia here, it's a chance to vent their spleen at lau lee...
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"Would you want the pie to grow? You want a small pie with your children taking the last portion, or a big pie where you get a bigger portion, even though the talented person may get a bigger slice? That's life. If you are afraid of talent, you will not succeed."
One catch he foresees: Even as the second generation of today's immigrants become more Singaporean, one dubious habit they might also adopt, is to have only one child.
"So we got to make this breakthrough, otherwise we are going to have a constant problem.
"We got to get people to realise that if we don't have 2.1 (babies) to replace ourselves, we are always dependent."
Earlier in the evening, Mr Lee officially opened the new NUS Alumni Complex, which comprises the redeveloped NUSS Kent Ridge Guild House and Shaw Foundation Alumni House.Wo Pui.
Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui.
Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui.
Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui. Pui.
Wow, this Lee Kuan Yew is very wise, can talk so much cock.
Old already still refuses to die.
Still insists on installing pacemaker.
This shows that Lee Kuan Yew still wants to live, he doesn't want to die.
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Why would the "Stop at 2" Policy be related to this?
It didn't affect the generation that's having the birth rate problem.
Even if the "Stop at 2" Policy didn't existed, the only difference is that we have a larger population. We'd still be hitting this issue.
If you're unhappy about policies, at least do some research to make sure what you're complaining is related.
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I think you have a point, there are more factors at work besides the stop at 2, like high costs of living, women working no time look after children, changes in mentality due to propaganda during stop at 2 etc.
Singapore's government saw rapid population growth as a threat to living standards and political stability, as large numbers of children and young people threatened to overwhelm the schools, the medical services, and the ability of the economy to generate employment for them all.
In the atmosphere of crisis after the 1965 separation from Malaysia, the government in 1966 established the Family Planning and Population Board, which was responsible for providing clinical services and public education on family planning.
Birth rates fell from 1957 to 1970, but then began to rise as women of the postwar baby boom reached child-bearing years. The government responded with policies intended to further reduce the birth rate. Abortion and voluntary sterilization were legalized in 1970.
Between 1969 and 1972, a set of policies known as "population disincentives" were instituted to raise the costs of bearing third, fourth, and subsequent children. Civil servants received no paid maternity leave for third and subsequent children; maternity hospitals charged progressively higher fees for each additional birth; and income tax deductions for all but the first two children were eliminated.
Large families received no extra consideration in public housing assignments, and top priority in the competition for enrollment in the most desirable primary schools was given to only children and to children whose parents had been sterilized before the age of forty. Voluntary sterilization was rewarded by seven days of paid sick leave and by priority in the allocation of such public goods as housing and education.
The policies were accompanied by publicity campaigns urging parents to "Stop at Two" and arguing that large families threatened parents' present livelihood and future security. The penalties weighed more heavily on the poor, and were justified by the authorities as a means of encouraging the poor to concentrate their limited resources on adequately nurturing a few children who would be equipped to rise from poverty and become productive citizens.
Fertility declined throughout the 1970s, reaching the replacement level of 1.006 in 1975, and thereafter declining below that level. With fertility below the replacement level, the population would after some fifty years begin to decline unless supplemented by immigration. In a manner familiar to demographers, Singapore's demographic transition to low levels of population growth accompanied increases in income, education, women's participation in paid employment, and control of infectious diseases.
It was impossible to separate the effects of government policies from the broader socioeconomic forces promoting later marriage and smaller families, but it was clear that in Singapore all the factors affecting population growth worked in the same direction.
The government's policies and publicity campaigns thus probably hastened or reinforced fertility trends that stemmed from changes in economic and educational structures. By the 1980s, Singapore's vital statistics resembled those of other countries with comparable income levels but without Singapore's publicity campaigns and elaborate array of administrative incentives.
http://www.photius.com/countries/singapore/society
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One thing Lee Kuan Yew is good at is to mess up society with his rubbish policies, for example biliangual policy program, stop at 2 program and don't know what other nonsense he can come up with.
When it comes to these things, Lee Kuan Yew is good at it.
I mean seriously speaking would you trust someone with below views to make social policies?
"Three women were brought to the Singapore General Hospital, each in the same condition and needing a blood transfusion. The first, a Southeast Asian was given the transfusion but died a few hours later. The second, a South Asian was also given a transfusion but died a few days later. The third, an East Asian, was given a transfusion and survived. That is the X factor in development." - 27 December 1967
"If you don't include your women graduates in your breeding pool and leave them on the shelf, you would end up a more stupid society...So what happens? There will be less bright people to support dumb people in the next generation. That's a problem." -Lee Kuan Yew in 1983 National Day Rally
"The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more ... the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow." - Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997
"I started off believing all men were equal. I now know that's the most unlikely thing ever to have been, because millions of years have passed over evolution, people have scattered across the face of this earth, been isolated from each other, developed independently, had different intermixtures between races, peoples, climates, soils... I didn't start off with that knowledge. But by observation, reading, watching, arguing, asking, that is the conclusion I've come to." - Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew
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Or shockingly,
Women with their higher educational levels do not want to put up with the hormone inbalance, the bloatedness, nausea associated with pregnancy and having to worry about their husbands running off when their figure goes all the way to hell.
Maybe when they got higher education they, oh i don't know suddenly realised they get the short end of the stick when it comes to starting a family? All the men have to do is make the deposit and the woman has to suffer for 9 months?
You're giving LKY far, far too much credit on this issue.
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Stop at 3 would be better policy.
But of course we can't really expect this type of far sighted policy to come out from someone like Lee Kuan Yew.
He is not that capable.
And what about the merger issue?
Also collapsed in 2 years.
Also a failure.
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singapore woman dont married or give birth also LKY fault ah?
give the old man a break lah. blame the singapore woman la. thei attitude towards their hubby or bf is dont improve, singapore men better seek greener pasture overseas.
just ask yourself, how many of our friends are marrying foreigner woman. my friend already quite a few. ahem.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I think you have a point, there are more factors at work besides the stop at 2, like high costs of living, women working no time look after children, changes in mentality due to propaganda during stop at 2 etc.
Singapore's government saw rapid population growth as a threat to living standards and political stability, as large numbers of children and young people threatened to overwhelm the schools, the medical services, and the ability of the economy to generate employment for them all.
In the atmosphere of crisis after the 1965 separation from Malaysia, the government in 1966 established the Family Planning and Population Board, which was responsible for providing clinical services and public education on family planning.
Birth rates fell from 1957 to 1970, but then began to rise as women of the postwar baby boom reached child-bearing years. The government responded with policies intended to further reduce the birth rate. Abortion and voluntary sterilization were legalized in 1970.
Between 1969 and 1972, a set of policies known as "population disincentives" were instituted to raise the costs of bearing third, fourth, and subsequent children. Civil servants received no paid maternity leave for third and subsequent children; maternity hospitals charged progressively higher fees for each additional birth; and income tax deductions for all but the first two children were eliminated.
Large families received no extra consideration in public housing assignments, and top priority in the competition for enrollment in the most desirable primary schools was given to only children and to children whose parents had been sterilized before the age of forty. Voluntary sterilization was rewarded by seven days of paid sick leave and by priority in the allocation of such public goods as housing and education.
The policies were accompanied by publicity campaigns urging parents to "Stop at Two" and arguing that large families threatened parents' present livelihood and future security. The penalties weighed more heavily on the poor, and were justified by the authorities as a means of encouraging the poor to concentrate their limited resources on adequately nurturing a few children who would be equipped to rise from poverty and become productive citizens.
Fertility declined throughout the 1970s, reaching the replacement level of 1.006 in 1975, and thereafter declining below that level. With fertility below the replacement level, the population would after some fifty years begin to decline unless supplemented by immigration. In a manner familiar to demographers, Singapore's demographic transition to low levels of population growth accompanied increases in income, education, women's participation in paid employment, and control of infectious diseases.
It was impossible to separate the effects of government policies from the broader socioeconomic forces promoting later marriage and smaller families, but it was clear that in Singapore all the factors affecting population growth worked in the same direction.
The government's policies and publicity campaigns thus probably hastened or reinforced fertility trends that stemmed from changes in economic and educational structures. By the 1980s, Singapore's vital statistics resembled those of other countries with comparable income levels but without Singapore's publicity campaigns and elaborate array of administrative incentives.
http://www.photius.com/countries/singapore/society
I heard from last time Social Studies teacher that got German doctors/ sociologists tell him straight that no birth control needed for SG in those days, though he just went ahead anyway. Dunno if true or not. =\
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Greying population is nothing really bad as portray by many.
What's wrong?
It's just economics and greed that urge for a bigger population viz consumerism and taxes.
$$$ we can increase from billion to trillions to....., but on resource.....
remember we only have one Earth.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Stop at 3 would be better policy.
But of course we can't really expect this type of far sighted policy to come out from someone like Lee Kuan Yew.
He is not that capable.
And what about the merger issue?
Also collapsed in 2 years.
Also a failure.
The merger was a failure, but the stop at two was actually needed then, when there were crap living standards. If every family had 5 or more children what would happen? Everyone trying to get free money. Family planning, needed when poor, abolished when Singapore became richer. China also somewhat in the same boat
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Stop at 3 would be better policy.
But of course we can't really expect this type of far sighted policy to come out from someone like Lee Kuan Yew.
He is not that capable.
And what about the merger issue?
Also collapsed in 2 years.
Also a failure.
What scientific paper have you read to be so sure that 3 was the magic number?
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Soon he will start a Lebensborn-esque system, albeit using China ladies.
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As usual, the PAP supporters like the bear comes in to post and than quickly runs away.
Now I am waiting for the thick skinned prostitute angel7030 to come here and post her entertaining nonsenses
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Lao zi Say..from daodejing... 制大国如�,烹�鲜
how about governing a smallest city?... it's easy as frying a plate of kway tiao... 制�城,�县如�炒果�... this is quoted from me. everyone can fried kway tiao easily... anyone.. maybe your neighbour also can if he is given the wok.
If i can fried kway tiao easily but kept complaining that frying kway tiao is difficult and no child's play?? should i give up frying kway tiao or keep on lying that frying kway tiao is difficult while it's easy?? Since i will never be given any chance in my life to learn to cook seafood dishes ,烹�鲜 in my area.. Why should i cry drop tear and tell lie that frying kway tiao is hard and thus i need to sell a plate of kway tiao for $200 or $2000 per plate? Because learning to fry kway tiao is a lucrative trade and it's not available to learn the skill here... and learning to fry kway tiao may be against the law if being found out.. thus only a small group of people only knows how to fry kway tiao and fry and improvish the kway tiao untill it taste very nice because this group of kway tiao man only can fry kway tiao so all their life they keep on frying and thinking about to improve the receipt for kway tiao... no matter how long how hard they fry... KWAY TIAO IS AFTER ALL KWAY TIAO..IT CAN NOT BECOME A DELICIOUS �鲜 . SEEMINGLY TRYING TO SHOW THE WORLD THE BEST CHAR KWAY TIAO.... I DARE NOT CLAIM ANY MERITS OR TALK SO LOUD IF I CAN AND ONLY KNOW HOW TO FRY KWAY TIAO BECAUSE I MAY BE LAUGH AT IN THE EYE OF THE WORLD.
That's why people don't respect us and we are always laugh at. If you go oversea and people know that you are the one boasting NO.1 char kway tiao... people laugh in their heart not on their mouth.. might invite unwanted danger at times..iam not proud iam scared...
Since we have the best char kway tiao... but we still need to buy oil and ingredient from laska stall and shop n save if they don't sell us the ingredient to fry kway tiao... because we talk so loud that we are NO. 1 fried kway tiao therefore we shouldn't buy ingredients from the stall or market. If you are the best, you should not rely on anyone. People do not like this let alone those who are lower and backdated in culture and social living.. If i ever go to Africa for diamonds.. i will flourish and throw a lot of sweets in an attempt to ask for diamonds.. with sincerity of course..
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iam an inexpensive goldfish... say $1 for 10 pieces..type. But my master kept me in luxurious efforts.. placing me in a 10'' round fish bowl feeding me the best food and all expensive neccesity wherby even the top quality breed goldfish don't enjoy.. THUS I MUST BE VERY PROUD INFRONT OF OTHER GOLDFISH AND EVEN LOOK-DOWN ON THOSE TOP QUALITY BREED... However, my maintainace is the most prized in the world.. my tank though small, is alway evolving with new water plants and decoration.. few years later my master shift and change some design added some more plants in it to make me look ''new'' my tank kept on changing environment.. but 1 thing doesn't change is the tank size.. also when new water is refill in the tank.. HAHA I FEEL IAM SWIMMING IN THE SEA... ONCE AGAIN PROUD..ut when water evaporates and i could hardly swim or breath around.. i feel like drying soon.. but upon drying iam beinf fed again.. i have live in a round fish tank for over 30 years.. i wonder how the sea look like also IS THE SEA SLIGHTLY BIGGER THAN MY TANK OR IS IT THE SAME?... Would i or shall i feel proud if i siwm with other top quality marine fish in the sea.. Though sea is salt water based habitat, i have lived in a little pool of freshwater for 30 years. even if it's takes me to change the habitat i think i should see the world. As my world for 30 years is just a 10'' fish tank with expensive expenditure.
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GIVING BIRTH IS A HOLY AND NATURAL HEAVEN'S PHENOMENAL. NOT INEXCHANGABLE FOR CASH AND BENEFITS. WE ARE NOT POULTRY ANIMALS. IF I KNOW MY OFF-SPRING WOULD BE BORNED SLAVES AND SUFFER IN TIME OF TURMOIL, I HOPE THEY CAN COME TO THIS EARTH AFTER EVERYTHING IS IN PEACE AND GOLDEN AGE. I ONLY GIVE BIRTH TO KINGS AND QUEENS NOT SLAVES.
WHY IS THERE A TREMENDOUS DROP IN BIRTH RATE, ALSO ON THE OTHER HAND A YEARN FOR BIRTH RATE INCREASE??? BUT NOTHING HAPPEN???
NOWADAYS I SEE MANY CHILDREN YOUNG AND ADOLESCENT.. ALL ARE NAIVE AND NOT AS TOUGH, BRAVE AND SMART AS WE USED TO BE LAST TIME. ALSO, THOUGH THEY LEARN BETTER MATHS AND SCIENCE , THEIR MORAL AND PERSONAL CULTIVATION OF BEING A RIGHTEOUS PERSON NEVER INCREASE OR DEVELOPE... I WONDER WHAT DID THEY LEARN IN SCHOOL... OR BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS HAS ALREADY BEEN DEGENERATED IN TERMS OF PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY THUS THEIR OFF-SPRING ARE PROVEN FURTILE MUNDANE SIMPLETON IN MY EYE.. I SCARE MY SON/DAUGHTER WOULD BECOME LIKE THIS... WHY NOWADAYS PEOPLE TALK A FEW WORDS AND JUMP BUILDING SO EASILY?? BECAUSE THEIR BRAIN PROGRAMMING IS WRONG AND WEAK.
WHEN A COMPUTER SOFTWARE IS Fxxck up we can tolerate and change it after formating.. if children and adolescent ''use or install the wrong,weak'' software it takes many years to format... sometimes even can't format at all.... one only realize the installation of wrong,weak'' software only when serious downturn in life occured such as commiting suicide or serious failure..
will my off-spring be any of these say weaker breed in society when they are born?? being bullied and make use of....causing family tragedy?... or being a slave to serve others.. earning ton of money for the maste while the slave suffer in slienence and end up sorrowful memories.. Over pampering from naive parents spoilt the already weak at heart and soul kid.. further developing other hidden social problems or jokes in future.
If every generation goes on at this state.. joke is forever a joke.. story narration below:
I go to find a prostitute and have her F and give her $, though iam very very F.. Ugly the PRO had no choice because he choosen this job... Not respectful in any sense but is lucrative enough to survive luxuriously... I find her on and on and F her and pay her again and again... one day, she already can't take it cry out and burst into tears... and talk loudly saying...: ''your rod is too strong and iam always in pain and injuired by your rod after everytime we finished''.. Please spare me... and your looks is fagot.... iam suffering mentally and physically with you day and night''.. After a good conversation and consoling.. and i give her $250 some $300 and some PRO $150 depending on their looks and figure and skill and this PRO though have complaints but they still bite the bullet and sell themselves again and again.. after 8 months later these PRO come to me and say we do not want to do your businese anymore.. please spare us this time is for real... we are suffering for many years.. but the fact being that they are PRO and they have no say really make my job easy.. being a valiant fagot look man i offer $50 more in 3 months time for them.. they still sell themselves ... on and on.. none had the guts to post any threat and danger for me.. thus the KARMA GOES ON.. IF IAM A RIGHTEOUS PRO I THROW BACK THE MONEY GIVEN AND SLAP THE PERSON IN THE FACE.
the above narration is a story... should any of the say paragraph ressemble any of ......plz disregard this...
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If IT'S PREDESTINED TO BE LIKE KANGXI EMPEROR WITH MANY SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND GRAND CHILDREN.... YOU ASK HIM STOP AT 2 SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN...
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Originally posted by charlize:
The "Stop at 2" Policy was really successful.
That means the "Stop at 2" Policy is not the cause of the declining population.
Its the "Use Your Hands" Campaign that really did us in.
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Originally posted by mancha:
That means the "Stop at 2" Policy is not the cause of the declining population.
Its the "Use Your Hands" Campaign that really did us in.
Huh?
Are you saying what I think you are saying?
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Originally posted by mancha:
That means the "Stop at 2" Policy is not the cause of the declining population.
Its the "Use Your Hands" Campaign that really did us in.
Haha I get it
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Originally posted by mancha:
That means the "Stop at 2" Policy is not the cause of the declining population.
Its the "Use Your Hands" Campaign that really did us in.
omg