Chee Soon Juan debates George Yeo on facebook
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Is George Yeo avoiding answering questions?
Sunday, 09 August 2009
Singapore Democrats
Yesterday, Dr Chee Soon Juan posted on Mr George Yeo's Facebook to invite the Minister to an online debate (see here and here). This set off an exchange of messages which we think readers might be interested to read.Dear Dr Chee
May I suggest you write to the PAP as what you propose seems rather formal.
I don't really want my FB activities to be so formal or serious. I am happy to engage as and when issues arise, but I do so as an individual without getting the PAP or MFA involved. Short responses, not long exchanges if possible. So far it has been fun for me and I hope to keep it that way. Hope you understand.
GeorgeDear George,
Thanks for your reply.
I have this impression that you are saying that you don't want to debate the issues without really saying so.
First, you say that you don't want your Facebook to be so formal or serious. And yet you use a picture of yourself in a business suit sitting in front of the Singapore flag with Hillary Clinton, obviously using your status as Foreign Minister.
Second, you say that you don't want to involve the PAP or MFA in the discussions. You are a minister and obviously a senior member of the PAP. How do you discuss political issues, as you are obviously doing with your FB visitors, without involving the PAP or the ministry you're in charge of?
Can an NSman say that he wants to discuss military matters on his FB (informally) but without involving the SAF? I hope you see the difficulty of your argument.
Be that as it may, I would be grateful if you could pass my message for a debate on to your secretary-general at your next CEC meeting. I'll write to Hsien Loong separately.
On this note, let's start a discussion. We can make it as informal as you want it to be but let's take it seriously. I can appreciate your sentiments about keeping your FB activity fun. But I think our fellow citizens would be aghast if we treated such weighty issues flippantly.
And if you insist, we can suspend the notion that you are a member of the PAP or cabinet.
I'd like to start with these three matters:
First, about your salary. Do you think you deserve the amount (it's nearly $3 million at last count, I believe) and are you comfortable with this knowing that the poorest of our poor whom you and your colleagues rule over are paid as little as $400 a month? Economically is this just? Morally is it sustainable?
Second, do you consider the Public Order Act that allows even a lone protester to be considered an illegal assembly constitutional? Also, organisations like the PAP Community Foundation and CASE are allowed to hold assemblies and processions while democracy activists are not. Is this fair? Constitutional?
Last but not least, is it right that the GIC and Temasek handle our national reserves but don't reveal the accounts and don't account for their transactions? What do you think about Ho Ching staying on as CEO after losses of $40 billion?
Happy National Day!
Soon JuanDear Dr Chee
I use a range of pictures for my FB accounts, some serious, some not so. Hillary was a celebrity in Phuket.
On salaries, the Public Orders Act and accounts of GIC and Temasek, there were extensive debates in Parliament which I don't think I can add much to, or subtract from. I believe the questions you ask were specifically replied to in Parliament.
On foreign visits, I often receive favourable comments about how Temasek is run. A number of countries actually hold Temasek up as a model to follow.
Happy National Day to you too!
GeorgeDear George,
I put a few issues to solicit your personal views because it was you who said that you didn't want to involve your party or your ministry in the discussions. But in your reply, you cite Parliamentary debates and say that the questions I asked were specifically replied to in Parliament.
Aren't these the views of your party that you didn't want to involve in the first place?
I ask again: What are your personal views about the amount that you are paid and do you feel you deserve it? What do you think about Singaporeans getting paid $400 a month? Do you think this is morally and economically defensible? Don't worry about the Parliamentary debates, I would like to hear what you as an individual think.
I also asked you about the Public Order Act and whether it is fair and constitutional for PAP supporters to hold processions and assemblies while supporters of the opposition are not. Again, I'm asking you for your thoughts and views, not those of your colleagues in Parliament.
Third, I asked you whether you thought that Ho Ching should stay on as CEO despite her losing $40 billion. You avoided my question by saying that other countries hold Temasek up as a model.
It's okay if you don't want to answer my questions. I would be grateful, however, if you would say it plainly rather that skirt the questions and give non-answers.
Soon JuanComments Search RSS uwong3 - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:34 am vipersonic - Interesting! Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:46 am greyheyn - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 1:44 am Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 5:04 am Tan Tai Wei - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:18 am Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:42 am quantum - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:43 pm AN - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:03 pm quantum - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42 pm Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 1:55 pm -
Come to think about it, it's not too wise to have public figures like ministers having fb accounts.
You are in a no win situation when people want to discuss political stuff with you - should you decline or engage them?
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I was wondering whether George Yeo is the highest paid foreign minister in the whole world, anybody has answers?
Chee Soon Juan challenges George Yeo to online debate
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Saturday, August 8, 2009
Singapore. Gay pride? No, Eurasian pride!
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The Singapore state controlled newspaper's online edition of August 4, 2009 has this article "Eurasian Pride. Racial Harmony in Singapore". Talk about a wrong choice of words, and worse, an insult to every red blooded Eurasian in Singapore!
Normally when you say "pride" for a section of the community, you normally think of a people downtrodden because of a distasteful or immoral past reputation, such as the "gays". That is why you have "gay pride week" or "reformed criminals pride week".The need to assert their "pride" is to challenge the normally held derogatory view of them, an attempt to rehabilitate from a past bad reputation. I have no problem with that when it comes to gays and others previously disadvantaged, and I am sure neither do you.
But to write an article about "Eurasian pride" is to insult every Eurasian in Singapore or anywhere else. George Yeo, Lee Kuan Yew's Foreign Minister, makes several false assertions in the article which means either he has never lived in Singapore or he is deliberately putting out falsehoods, because with a state controlled press in Singapore, he can say anything however false unchallenged. The latter is of course the case here.
First he says "More than 20 years ago, Eurasians were not treated in a respectable way and therefore many left for Australia." I have lived in Singapore too and I have never come across anyone treating Eurasians in a "less respectable way". In fact, with a European ancestry, albeit only part, Eurasians felt themselves better and higher class than the Asian Chinese in Singapore, like George Yeo.Considering Singapore being a predominantly Chinese island and they feeling European; not wanting to be associated with the Singaporeans Chinese coolies, of which George Yeo's ancestors were one; they preferred to settle in Australia which was principally a white country.
Their leaving Singapore was certainly not because anyone in Singapore looked down at them. In fact it was the other way around; the Eurasians looking down on the Asian Chinese; and the Asian Chinese like George Yeo admiring Eurasians for their usually better looks and their European culture. George Yeo's name itself gives this away, since why is he calling himself George Yeo instead of Yeo Heng Hock or whatever Chinese name he was born with since his Mongoloid appearance has nothing to do with a European name like George!
George being a typical English name, I am sure King George V of England, would be turning in his grave to know a Singapore Chinese guy whose parents were Chinese coolies from Southern China, in pigtails kowtowing every five minutes to the Emperor's servants, lest their heads be chopped off; is now running around Singapore island and calling himself George!
George Yeo then says Eurasians now are asking that they be described as Eurasians in the Singapore identity cards. Apart from the fact that they may or may not have asked to be described as "Eurasians" in their ID cards, since with a state controlled paper like the Straits Times you can say any lie you want anytime; the whole concept of marking a person’s race in his ID as Chinese, Indian etc, is totally unacceptable.It smacks of apartheid, since the constitution specifically declares all to be equal; what need is there to mark a persons' race other than to discriminate him? This practice is outlawed in all free civilized nations in the world except for the totalitarian and repressive regimes such as the previous racist S Africa. For instance my California ID carries the name Gopalan Nair. It does not say Gopalan Nair, Indian.
He then says "Everyone in Singapore is given equal treatment". Really? In 1938, Singapore Chinese population was only 51%. Today, despite the decreasing birth rate among the Chinese, which would have meant the Chinese population, would have declined even further, it now stands at 75%, because George Yeo's government in total violation of the Constitution brings in disproportionally large numbers of Chinese from China to ensure they remain the majority.This is a violation of the Constitution as it requires equal treatment among the races. Is George Yeo, Lee Kuan Yew's Foreign Minister not lying through his teeth when he says “everyone is given equal treatment"? Tell me George Yeo, are the Malays and Indians treated "equally"?
George Yeo, who appears to be completely in the dark about Eurasians, should be told one more thing. Eurasians, the educated ones that is, are continuing to leave Singapore in progressively greater numbers to Australia and elsewhere.And they are leaving because there is no democracy in Singapore and also because the Straits Times, Singapore’s state controlled newspaper continues to insult their intelligence and their ethnicity by writing this nonsense such as that put out here by Lee Kuan Yew's foreign Minister George Yeo, this Chinese George.
My name is Gopalan Nair. Not Archibald Adams Nair. And I am proud of it.
Gopalan Nairhttp://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/08/singapore
Thank god my parents never gave me angmoh name.
I don't want to be a banana.
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MALCOLM X: OUR HISTORY WAS DESTROYED BY SLAVERY
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Originally posted by charlize:
You are in a no win situation when people want to discuss political stuff with you
Or if they start ripping your pictures down to have fun with Photoshop, and then start throwing they masterpieces back online. XD
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Thank god my parents never gave me angmoh name.
I don't want to be a banana.
You're never alone. =)
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You're never alone. =)
I always considered angmoh name on asian people to be filth and disrespectful to their heritage.
Even that anglo bastard Lee Kuan Yew has to drop his Harry and become Kuan Yew to even have a chance to be elected.
People in those days see him yellow skin but got angmoh name, they won't respect him, they will see him as a british dog.
That is why the name must change.
But that bastard change his fucking name, inside still white.
Skin outside is yellow skin, but meat inside is white meat, that is Lee Kuan Yew.
Such filth as him.
Singapore is made up of asian people, malay, tamil, dialect chinese, but sway enough to have an anglo filth like Lee Kuan Yew come and rule us, come and mess up everything.
Lee Kuan Yew and all of his mother fucking anglo filth.
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If one is really serving the citizens and the country - one is more than willing to exchange views, ideas openly - i dont see it as a problem.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Is George Yeo avoiding answering questions?
Sunday, 09 August 2009
Singapore Democrats
Yesterday, Dr Chee Soon Juan
posted on Mr George Yeo's Facebook to invite the Minister to an
online debate (see here and here). This set off an exchange of messages which we
think readers might be interested to read.Dear George,
I put a few issues to solicit your personal views because it was you who said that you didn't want to involve your party or your ministry in the discussions. But in your reply, you cite Parliamentary debates and say that the questions I asked were specifically replied to in Parliament.
Aren't these the views of your party that you didn't want to involve in the first place?
I ask again: What are your personal views about the amount that you are paid and do you feel you deserve it? What do you think about Singaporeans getting paid $400 a month? Do you think this is morally and economically defensible? Don't worry about the Parliamentary debates, I would like to hear what you as an individual think.
I also asked you about the Public Order Act and whether it is fair and constitutional for PAP supporters to hold processions and assemblies while supporters of the opposition are not. Again, I'm asking you for your thoughts and views, not those of your colleagues in Parliament.
Third, I asked you whether you thought that Ho Ching should stay on as CEO despite her losing $40 billion. You avoided my question by saying that other countries hold Temasek up as a model.
It's okay if you don't want to answer my questions. I would be grateful, however, if you would say it plainly rather that skirt the questions and give non-answers.
Soon JuanComments Search RSS
<!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> uwong3 - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:34 am Haha CSJ, Great job! I am proud of you. <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> vipersonic - Interesting! Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:46 am Please post his reply as soon as possible, it would be interesting to find out what are his personal views on these issues and ultimately, his stand as a minister in parliament. Is he one of the good PAP MPs who are trying to invocate change in his own party? Or is he one of the greedy ones who are too works for money rather than for the country? This is starting to get interesting... <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> greyheyn - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 1:44 am George cares so much about his online credibility and that what makes him answer Dr Chee - a so called PAP/SPH made "psychopath". George could jolly well leave Chee alone but he didn't (Of course, he will do that so enough).
Nevertheless, his behaviour could have indicated a wider aspiration to differentiate himself from other PAPs and perhaps can also be found of people who were extremely ambitious, for better and for worse. <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 5:04 am Re: "Dear Dr Chee...May I suggest you write to the PAP as what you propose seems rather formal."
The following line from Dr Chee's first letter to George may hold the clue for George's suggestion to write to the PAP instead.
Re: "You may be aware that the Singapore Democrats are also active online and, for this reason, I have on separate occasions invited your party colleagues to debates on the Internet. Unfortunately I have received only silence." <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> Tan Tai Wei - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:18 am Is George saying that what he pronounces and supports as Minister may not be what he personally believes, and therefore that he is in there just for the money and/or prestige and power, and he has not been sincere and committed? <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:42 am As a follow up to my earlier post, George Yeo seems very confident when he says this:
Re: "Dear Dr Chee...May I suggest you write to the PAP as what you propose seems rather formal."
If Dr Chee thinks that I have a valid point, I would like him to ask George this question on my behalf.
Yes, George. You may suggest anything you want.
But one constituent of mine wants to know this: Is there currently a structural arrangement within the PAP that would guarantee that if I wrote to them, I would a receive a positive response to my 'formal' proposals (ie. a meeting can be set up to for the purposes of my questions being answered)?
If so, what are those structural arrangements? Is there a specific unit within the PAP that will accede to my requests for the questions that I have raised? And if so, which unit might that be?
And may I quote you as having reccomended that avenue as a recourse for my specific concerns? <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> quantum - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:43 pm It is very important that at the end of a person's life, the person can ask the question below and answer it satisfactorily and with conscience.
Question: What are my dreams? (eg democracy, social justice, personal wealth, possession of power etc) and have I done enough to achieve them?
Both CSJ(age 47) and George Yeo(age 54) got to ask themselves this important question. <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> AN - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:03 pm Kudos to George Yeo for replying to Dr Chee's post on FB. At least he has the courtesy to reply albeit skirting the 3 issues that Dr Chee brought up.
Perhaps George Yeo could do one notch better than the rest of his colleagues by answering Dr Chee's questions directly.
Come on George, show us that you are different from the rest of your colleagues.
Let your YES be YES and your NO be NO. No ifs, no buts and let there be NO DOUBT! <!-- style='padding-left:0;'> --> quantum - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42 pm >>>Let your YES be YES and your NO be NO. No ifs, no buts and let there be NO DOUBT!
Most importantly of all, NO logical contradictions and internal inconsistencies. I cannot stand garbage.<!-- style='padding-left:0;'> -->
Robox - Mon, 10 Aug 2009 1:55 pm In exactly what capacity is George Yeo engaging Singaporeans in his FB in if not as a PAP member or the Minister of Foreign Affairs?
In his personal capacity?
That doesn't seem like it from the way the dialogue is going, because he is definitely not engaging Singaporeans on his stamp collection.
Is he?I'm sure we all know the answer even if he doesn't say it outrightly. Its just the typical bureaucratic answer you'll get everytime a politician has to say something uncomfortable.
Pity that people in Singapore are extremely apathetic about such issues because its so removed from their daily existence.
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Pity that people in Singapore are extremely apathetic about such issues because its so removed from their daily existence.
It is due to the suppression of the PAP regime and their brain numbing state media.
Events in Singapore 1956:
Parents giving supplies and moral
support to students staging a stay-in
demo at Chung Cheng High School.http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/independence/ref/riot56.html
http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/independence/headline/sch56a.html
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Chee Don Juan....eh wrong, Chee Soon Juan also asked for too much lah.....cannot really debate people from Facebook....and if people dont want to, dont force people please....
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Btw that Gopalan Nair seems like a butthurt bitter racist.
Maybe now in USA he takes up new racial issues.
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George Meow.
I love cats . . . -
Ladies and Gentlemen, if there are,
On behalf of the Singapore foreign Ministry, we shall present the following formal statements with no debate intended.
1. Ministers in Singapore are qualified peoples, they can anytime be a CEO or Board directors and be paid more than a Minister's pay. But because of the patriotism and need to serve and contribute, they are willing to take on a lower paid structure as a Minister in comparing with a Directors paid, which can be double or triple it.
2. Singapore is a peaceful country where all can enjoy and build their life here, we condone all violences and protest without proper channel thru the authority concern. The word Public Order, serve all of us orderly for the benefit of peace and harmony. The Act had serves us well for the past years and it should be merited instead of condemned.
3 Temasek and GIC deals with investments for the benefits of the country wealth, and investment come with risk and loses, however, it also come with wins and gains, the govt had been transparent to the public by sharing its loses. Ironically, nobody seems to bother about the years of Winning. In view of an experience investor, it is part and parcel of a capital market mobility and liquitability.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
It is due to the suppression of the PAP regime and their brain numbing state media.
Events in Singapore 1956:
Parents giving supplies and moral
support to students staging a stay-in
demo at Chung Cheng High School.http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/independence/ref/riot56.html
http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/independence/headline/sch56a.html
Whats the message? Condemn PAP for not supporting communism?
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Why suddenly got communism?
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Why suddenly got communism?
First link says students got riot cause pro commie org kena ban
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Wow, George Yeo is really a coward!
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Originally posted by pearlie27:
Wow, George Yeo is really a coward!
no lah, he works very hard ok, Uncle George is good ya, he is not others Ministers who like to talk alot, actually he can be a DPM, at least better than Wong KS, but because he is not so shrewd and witty, so LKY casted him one side...he also a former president scholar ya. If you look at Uncle George, his position seldom change, unlike his counterpart who also from SAF, Rear Side Adm Teo, goes all the way up... -
Such a thing... how to debate via online?
Although openess is good but its too open liao....
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Originally posted by Hawk Eye:
Such a thing... how to debate via online?
Although openess is good but its too open liao....
Better debate in Sgforum. lol..
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Originally posted by Hawk Eye:
Such a thing... how to debate via online?
Although openess is good but its too open liao....
open says too open, close says dictator...damn, i dun understand SDP -
Originally posted by pearlie27:
Wow, George Yeo is really a coward!
Correction George Meow. And he must have thoight he is above all. In a cat's words: Miaauuw -
Originally posted by angel7030:
open says too open, close says dictator...damn, i dun understand SDPYah, you no need to understand lah