Anyone, like me, saw the Channelnewsasia's programme on Singapore remerger with Malaysia?
Thay got professors, think-tank speakers to talk about this topic. All of them talked about "regionalisation is the way to go and not nationalisation".
Throughout the programme they kept talking and talking about the need for integration. Nobody stepped back and asked why the need for integration.
Their argument for regionalisation? because of growing China and India. I don't get the logic.
So why do we need to integrate with the region to fight against these two gaints? If anything, Singapore should integrate with winner and not loser, with India and China
I mean not too long ago, we have LKY, LHL and GCT talking about Singapore having two wings as India and China take off as global superpowers.
I saw bits and pieces of that show, but I thought the main propaganda they are trying to sell is economic union with Malaysia?
During 2006 elections PAP opposed this now a little more than three years later they changed their attitude.
Two headed snake, the PAP.
Goh Chok Tong attacks Chiam See Tong on union with Malaysia idea
By Daniel Buenas
May 01, 2006
PEOPLE'S Action Party leaders - including Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong - last night launched a scathing attack on veteran opposition leader Chiam See Tong's idea for economic union between Singapore and Malaysia.
Speaking at a PAP rally in Potong Pasir, Mr Goh - who has been tasked by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong to help the party's candidate Sitoh Yih Pin unseat incumbent Mr Chiam in the coming elections - said the opposition leader was not being a 'realist'.
He was referring to Mr Chiam's suggestion at a rally in Chua Chu Kang Park on Saturday that one way to grow the economy would be for Singapore and Malaysia to strike an economic union.
'Economic union is possible only between two countries of equals, otherwise it is not possible,' Mr Goh said. 'My point for bringing this out is, to show that (while Mr Chiam) has some ideals, some vision, he is not a realist.'
Mr Chiam had also said on Saturday that such a union would allow Singaporeans to travel freely to Malaysia, and that because the Opposition has no history with the Malaysian government, it could 'bargain on a clean slate' on bilateral issues.
In response, Mr Goh said: 'When it comes to negotiations with the Malaysians, would you rather Lee Kuan Yew negotiate or Chiam See Tong? Just ask yourself . . . would you rather I (or PM Lee) negotiate, or Chiam See Tong?'
Mr Chiam's comments also came under fire from two other PAP leaders who turned up at the rally - Trade and Industry Minister Lim Hng Kiang and Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports Vivian Balakrishnan - as well as Mr Sitoh himself.
Mr Balakrishnan noted that, while Mr Chiam's plan would allow Singaporeans to 'pack their bags and travel to Malaysia anytime', it would also allow equal access to Singapore.
'His teammates in the Singapore Democratic Alliance have been saying that foreigners have been taking away jobs from Singaporeans,' Mr Balakrishnan said.
'You want union? You want free entry of people, of foreigners . . . are you really talking about making this place so everyone can come here? No work permits, no employment pass no control? Think again. Think very carefully,' he said.
In his speech, Mr Lim also questioned Mr Chiam's suggestion, and asked Singaporeans to compare the economic strategy of the PAP to that of the Opposition in order to judge who would better serve their interests.
'Mr Chiam says, we join Malaysia, we have a market of 27 million straightaway. Therefore, we can have double-digit growth every year,' Mr Lim said. 'Wah lau, so easy ah . . . so why just join Malaysia? Why not join Indonesia? They have 240 million people. Maybe triple-digit growth.'
http://www.asiaone.com/specials/ge2006/news/20060501
Economic union with malaysia was Chiam See Tong's idea, not PAP's idea.
Please don't be a shameless bastard PAP, go and steal other people's idea and present it as your own.
Pui.
In response, Mr Goh said: 'When it comes to negotiations with the Malaysians, would you rather Lee Kuan Yew negotiate or Chiam See Tong? Just ask yourself . . . would you rather I (or PM Lee) negotiate, or Chiam See Tong?'
Under PAP, negotiation on water, railway, airspace really gets nowhere!
'You want union? You want free entry of people, of foreigners . . . are you really talking about making this place so everyone can come here? No work permits, no employment pass no control? Think again. Think very carefully,' he said.
Big mouth Bala. Under PAP, we're now really having free entry of people.
Not only free entry but freedom for all Tom Dick and Harry to be PRs and citizens. No quality control.
Why PAP likes to lie so much?
They keep on lie and lie and lie.
- PAP, 2006 elections
lie lie lie, nothing but lies.
Sick of this fucking PAP.
Now even the mother fucking state TV media also full of shows on foreigners.
Not sure what the program is about.....
If it talks about economic integration...nothing wrong with that...
Maybe more about investment rules, taxations, etc....
More like European Union, lah.
Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia. Maybe Timor Leste and Papua New Guinea too.
Some how I think it will never ever happen. Simply because Malaysia cannot get along with Singapore. Malaysia simply buay tahan the tiny island republic.
The Iskander Development Region exposed Malaysia lack of confidence against Singapore.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Why PAP likes to lie so much?
They keep on lie and lie and lie.
You want free entry of people, of foreigners . . . are you really talking about making this place so everyone can come here?
- PAP, 2006 elections
lie lie lie, nothing but lies.
Sick of this fucking PAP.
Now even the mother fucking state TV media also full of shows on foreigners.
lies is the game here, if opposition dunno how to lies, they cannot never win. Peoples in Singapore like lies ya
Originally posted by mancha:More like European Union, lah.
Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia. Maybe Timor Leste and Papua New Guinea too.
Some how I think it will never ever happen. Simply because Malaysia cannot get along with Singapore. Malaysia simply buay tahan the tiny island republic.
The Iskander Development Region exposed Malaysia lack of confidence against Singapore.
we can alway take off from the Asean point of view, why need a Union? France, German and Brit are getting heated up by some third world european countries banking and currency systems, in order to substain Euro Dollars, they have to support those 3rd world countries banks. Do you want Singapore to support mynamar bank by pouring in Sing dollars just to hold on to a new Asean Dollars in near future? Think hor.
Integration is a good idea but just talk talk and more talks that will never happen.Merger with Malaysia is lagi better and a possibility but perhaps in another 60 years or so
Originally posted by angel7030:we can alway take off from the Asean point of view, why need a Union? France, German and Brit are getting heated up by some third world european countries banking and currency systems, in order to substain Euro Dollars, they have to support those 3rd world countries banks. Do you want Singapore to support mynamar bank by pouring in Sing dollars just to hold on to a new Asean Dollars in near future? Think hor.
You think Asean leading leaders don't know that?
Anyway I said it will never happen.
It would also be another reason why.
Originally posted by mancha:You think Asean leading leaders don't know that?
Anyway I said it will never happen.
It would also be another reason why.
They knew it because there is a real role model that they could see, lucky indeed. If European was not unionised, maybe we will be conned into merging.
Thay got professors, think-tank speakers to talk about this topic. All of them talked about "regionalisation is the way to go and not nationalisation".
Throughout the programme they kept talking and talking about the need for integration. Nobody stepped back and asked why the need for integration.
That show "Insight" is a good example of how PAP regime uses the power of state media to brainwash and bombard the public with propaganda to serve certain state agendas.
Now they are trying to sell the idea of economic union with Malaysia to the public, so this can be considered propaganda work to prepare public opinion for that objective.
That shows gets four or five people to keep on repeat the propaganda of economic union, they keep on repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and fucking repeat, try to drill their propaganda into your fucking head.
There is no debate, criticism, analysis of the entire economic union scheme and the effects on economy, society whatsoever in the entire fucking program.
This is the sort of filth that stifles and kills off intellectual life in this country.
All the rubbish, all the filth, all the moronic ideas, policies, projects, forced down our throats by some mother fucking bureaucrat within the PAP regime.
This sort of rubbish propaganda brainwashing causes the downfall of this country.
It is the work of that bastard Lee Kuan Yew.
That mother fucking baba bastard Lee Kuan Yew who during WWII go and work for Japanese while they kill the dialect chinese in Singapore.
That mother fucker.
Good baba bastard Lee Kuan Yew, good, very good.
Come and stifle us, come and brainwash us with your filth, your mother fucking state media and your mother fucking state propaganda.
Come and kill off the intellectual life of Singapore come and castrate politics in Singapore.
Good very good.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:That show "Insight" is a good example of how PAP regime uses the power of state media to brainwash and bombard the public with propaganda to serve certain state agendas.
Now they are trying to sell the idea of economic union with Malaysia to the public, so this can be considered propaganda work to prepare public opinion for that objective.
That shows gets four or five people to keep on repeat the propaganda of economic union, they keep on repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and fucking repeat, try to drill their propaganda into your fucking head.
There is no debate, criticism, analysis of the entire economic union scheme and the effects on economy, society whatsoever in the entire fucking program.
This is the sort of filth that stifles and kills off intellectual life in this country.
All the rubbish, all the filth, all the moronic ideas, policies, projects, forced down our throats by some mother fucking bureaucrat within the PAP regime.
This sort of rubbish propaganda brainwashing causes the downfall of this country.
It is the work of that bastard Lee Kuan Yew.
That mother fucking baba bastard Lee Kuan Yew who during WWII go and work for Japanese while they kill the dialect chinese in Singapore.
That mother fucker.
Good baba bastard Lee Kuan Yew, good, very good.
Come and stifle us, come and brainwash us with your filth, your mother fucking state media and your mother fucking state propaganda.
Come and kill off the intellectual life of Singapore come and castrate politics in Singapore.
Good very good.
ah chia not celebrating national day today?
Originally posted by marcteng:ah chia not celebrating national day today?
watch those utube links you posted better than celebrating National Day
ah chia not celebrating national day today?
It's because of national day that I am compelled to reflect on affairs of the nation and this leads me to focus on the cancer of this country.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:It's because of national day that I am compelled to reflect on affairs of the nation and this leads me to focus on the cancer of this country.
At the rate you are going you are going to cultivate a cancer in yourself.
And it would all be lky's fault.
And it would all be lky's fault.
He is the root cause.
I wonder why are the politicians waving their hands to the crowd, walking to their seats. the crowd is certainly not waving or cheering them. I wonder if there are anti PAP people in the crowd, pelting them with eggs? any ah chia in the NDP crowd?
Integration is a good idea but just talk talk and more talks that will never happen.Merger with Malaysia is lagi better and a possibility but perhaps in another 60 years or so
Hey, you are wrong. All Asean countries have to roll out their integration programmes wef 2020. That is 10 to 11 years from now.
If you are in your 20s, by your age of 30s to the rest of your life, you have to content with Asean integration.
The most perplex thing about this thing called Asean integration, none of the penal of speakers can predict what form it will take.
That is my point - why Singapore goes for such risky venture when the benefit is unsure of?
kill me!
Originally posted by mancha:More like European Union, lah.
Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia. Maybe Timor Leste and Papua New Guinea too.
Some how I think it will never ever happen. Simply because Malaysia cannot get along with Singapore. Malaysia simply buay tahan the tiny island republic.
The Iskander Development Region exposed Malaysia lack of confidence against Singapore.
The EU type integration is only one of the three possibilities. The next is NAFTA type of integration and the last is economic integration.
a) EU type integration with its own parliament and its own statute. Anything that fall within EU's domain of law and regulation, there will be free movement of people, goods and services.
This type of integration will kill us all. Freedom of movement of people means Indonesia, - alone with a population of 190 millions, will drowned us into the sea.
b) NAFTA type of integration with an economic trading block that gives preferential tax or incentive to its members.
NAFTA is based on the concept of comparative advantage. Indeed, Canada with its resources, US with its business and Mexico with its cheap manpower.
But if we look at Asean. Different stages of economic development, with resource, labour and production that are more or less similar than complimentary. What comparative advantage can we squeeze from each others?
Do Singapore wants to give preferential tax or incentive to Asean at the expense of mighty India and China?
No preferential tax or incentive can counter a growing economic and political might. As India and China grow in influence and power, they can force Asean to shut down its trading block by threathening tax barrier on Asean's goods and service.
c) Economic integration with lower tax and tariff among Asean. This is the most likely form of integration. About ten years ago, some businessmen complained to our govt that Vietnam has tariff of 60 to 30%. Now, I think it is down to 30 to 10%.
More inter-Asean trade is always a good thing. But why is Singapore going all out to formalize it? What long term benefit will it bring to us? Why bother to lock Singapore in such system?
By formalizing this trade relationship, Singapore is forcing itself to march in locked-steps with all our neighbours. If they decide to go slow, we also go slow.
If Asean decides to march three steps and rest one step, Singapore follows because of the trade formalization. If India and China is marching at six steps and rest one step, shouldn't Singapore be following them instead?
Shouldn't Singapore be following the winners? - the flying geese of India and China.
a) EU type integration with its own parliament and its own statute. Anything that fall within EU's domain of law and regulation, there will be free movement of people, goods and services.
EU type of integration is bullshit.
Even the european people themselves are against it.
If some bastard in PAP regime wants to come and push for some EU bullshit into my face, I will give that bastard two slaps across his mother fucking face.
See:
http://www.youtube.com/results?feature=moby&search
http://www.ukip.org/content/manifestos-and-literature/1019
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p9VC_P3Gf8
Originally posted by angel7030:we can alway take off from the Asean point of view, why need a Union? France, German and Brit are getting heated up by some third world european countries banking and currency systems, in order to substain Euro Dollars, they have to support those 3rd world countries banks. Do you want Singapore to support mynamar bank by pouring in Sing dollars just to hold on to a new Asean Dollars in near future? Think hor.
Clever view from Angie.
Sometime worse is happening in the EU. Many EU govts operate on perpetual budget deficit. Their treasuries and banks are backrupt. So to run with operating costs, these politicians pledged their country's name, country's asset, country's goodwill, country's future etc to foreign banks for loans.
Some of these greedy politicians used these loans to get higher return by recycling the loans into risky but high yield derivative options. As people know, these high yield derrivative options are nothing more than scams.
When the economic bloodbath was unleashed, all the EU members were hit hard. Litvia was the hardest hit country. Mighty England was on the verge of economic collapse, operating with 0% interest rate on bank's loan. Even mighty France was down with a bloodied nose. The only member left standing was a bruised Germany.
Germany has to content with playing nurse. Integration means the strong helping the weak in times of need, otherwise why integrate? Who should it prioritised? Germany's own banks? or Litvia? or Lithuania? or Iceland? or England?
Some EU members behaved in this way because they have the Union to turn to as a last resort. They could afford to be reckless with their financial discipline.
Do Singapore wants that? For misbehaving or undiscipline Myanmar or Vietnam or Indonesia because they have a small 'big' daddy of Singapore to bail them out everytime they get into trouble?
Do Singapore want to put herself in future situation as Germany's in 2009?
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/02/20/latvia_is_the_new_iceland
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12508.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7901902.stm
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/17/world/fg-baltic-protests17
Sometime worse is happening in the EU. Many EU govts operate on perpetual budget deficit. Their treasuries and banks are backrupt. So to run with operating cost, these politicians pledged their country's name, country's asset, country's goodwill, country's future etc to bank for loans.
The filth of the "free market" model:
Latvia In Crisis as Thatcher Free Market Model Collapses
The global financial and economic crisis has hit the small Baltic country Latvia harder than any single country with the possible exception of Iceland. As part of its attempt to join the European Monetary Union the country has fixed its currency the Lats to the Euro. The result has been to make a bad situation catastrophic. How the situation develops will have direct bearing on the fate of many emerging countries of eastern Europe. It marks the death of the radical experiment with Thatcherism in eastern Europe.
On the surface the crisis the country is experiencing the result of a borrowing binge among consumers which got out of control and now must be reigned in by tough government austerity measures. In reality, it is a tale of greed of foreign bankers, a failed economic reform and a political system that is fixated on Euro entry as the Holy Grail for the economy.
Events in Latvia over the past two years signal the death of the radical neo/liberal Thatcher economic shock therapy imposed after the dissolution of the Soviet Union when the West, led by Washington, mandated that the IMF dictate terms of economic transformation for the former Soviet economies.
On the one side are western banks, above all Swedish banks which more of less colonized Latvia after 1990 as their ‘sphere of influence.’ They are allied with the IMF and the EU, though of late the latter two are themselves in a deep policy split.
On the other side is a growing grass roots popular protest which since January has led major marches against the government, and which has just elected to Parliament an ethnic Russian party for the first time since 1990, with ethnic Latvian support, as a signal of the depth of protest to the free–wheeling plunder era of the past two decades. Until the present crisis, Latvia was praised in western financial markets as the ‘poster child’ of free market success in the region. It was growth based on easy credit, a real estate bubble and consumer debt. The success was only for a tiny elite of bankers and local oligarchs as now is clear...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14615