Originally posted by Lim Wei Ming:
10K a month. You can invest half of the money and be even richer. You don't need to think much about CPF at all.
Of course you're right. But then who complains about too much money? On the other hand, many people who earns 10k a month lives 15k a month lifestyle. At the end of the day, they are still in debt. Many Singaporeans under 40 these days are living beyond their means. If not for CPF, they can't even afford roof over their heads. But then they forgot, CPF is meant for old age and medical bills. Everyone will be old one day and everyone will be sick one day. Unless you get run over by a bus before then but that's a different story. The government realise this but we are in too deep to reverse so they are not doing anything drastic. In 20 years time, there will be many people trying to dump their HDB to cash out. Who do you think is going to buy those flats? Today's kids? HDB? Be prepared for more foreigners coming in.
10k a month is nice if one is prudent. It can be a liability if one is spends foolishly.
Originally posted by Lim Wei Ming:
I dunno where lah. I'm just saying. Usually people with like 10K income will have investments one. What they invest in i'm not sure.
You're on the right track. Properties, shares, FD, unit trusts, ..... Investing = saving. Just have to be disciplined and not greedy. There is no easy money. Work hard, be prudent, save and be patient. There is no short cuts. Buy toto regularly, that may help.
The most pitiful of course are the youths. If they want a normal life like all their counterparts in other countries, they will be in debt their whole lives!
A house and a car will cost less than 30% of what the despots charge them in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand.
Worse of all is that, the money they pay, the money that the despots try their best to take as much as possible of, goes to foreigners through Temasek and Barclays, Merrill Lynchs, Shin Corps and the others.
Then there is the job scene where their wages are pushed down by the influx of foreigners the despots bring in.
Double jeopardy, high cost, low (relatively) wages.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
The most pitiful of course are the youths. If they want a normal life like all their counterparts in other countries, they will be in debt their whole lives!
A house and a car will cost less than 30% of what the despots charge them in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand.
Worse of all is that, the money they pay, the money that the despots try their best to take as much as possible of, goes to foreigners through Temasek and Barclays, Merrill Lynchs, Shin Corps and the others.
Then there is the job scene where their wages are pushed down by the influx of foreigners the despots bring in.
Double jeopardy, high cost, low (relatively) wages.
Despite all the high costs and everything I bet you won't swap places with a Malaysian or Thai or Indon would you? Sure houses and cars are cheap, so are salaries. It is just as tough there as it is in Singapore if not worse. Can't have the cake and eat it.
Originally posted by monday blue:Despite all the high costs and everything I bet you won't swap places with a Malaysian or Thai or Indon would you? Sure houses and cars are cheap, so are salaries. It is just as tough there as it is in Singapore if not worse. Can't have the cake and eat it.
Of course I would, especially since I would have no problems getting a job in Singapore. I would gladly be one of the foreigners cashing in with the despots, cashing in on stupid Silliporeans screwed by their own despotic government.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Of course I would, especially since I would have no problems getting a job in Singapore. I would gladly be one of the foreigners cashing in with the despots, cashing in on stupid Silliporeans screwed by their own despotic government.
You really think your pink IC is a liability. You really think living as a foreigner in Singapore is better. Perhaps if they are angmoh expats living in Districts 9/10/11, driving BMW/Mercs, kids going to international schools, with a 20k a month salary. If they can only afford to rent or worse share a room in a HDB flat, take bus/MRT to work, eat in hawker centres, they'd prefer to have a pink IC. Be happy with what you have, it could be worse.
Originally posted by monday blue:
You really think your pink IC is a liability. You really think living as a foreigner in Singapore is better. Perhaps if they are angmoh expats living in Districts 9/10/11, driving BMW/Mercs, kids going to international schools, with a 20k a month salary. If they can only afford to rent or worse share a room in a HDB flat, take bus/MRT to work, eat in hawker centres, they'd prefer to have a pink IC. Be happy with what you have, it could be worse.
Even the Foreign construction worker or grass cutter is better off. He works hard while he is young and goes home to a life of comfortable living. The money he gets in Singapore will give him a comfortable living back home. His government is not desperately trying to grab as much of his money as possible like the way the despots here are, through organisations like Temasek.
They are not like the stupid Silliporeans youths that let themselves be screwed by the cursed despot with a zombie wife and his cronies, working hard only to pay off their debts and eke out a mergre livelihood in the end, if they can retire, that is!
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Even the Foreign construction worker or grass cutter is better off. He works hard while he is young and goes home to a life of comfortable living. The money he gets in Singapore will give him a comfortable living back home. His government is not desperately trying to grab as much of his money as possible like the way the despots here are, through organisations like Temasek.
They are not like the stupid Silliporeans youths that let themselves be screwed by the cursed despot with a zombie wife and his cronies, working hard only to pay off their debts and eke out a mergre livelihood in the end, if they can retire, that is!
You really need to go out and see how they live. Even will all the money they earn in Singapore, life back home is still not great. I'm not saying life is fantastic in Singapore today but by comparison it is still better. We all try to make a better life for ourselves and our families. Pink IC is not a liability. You'll see when you're older.
Originally posted by monday blue:You really need to go out and see how they live. Even will all the money they earn in Singapore, life back home is still not great. I'm not saying life is fantastic in Singapore today but by comparison it is still better. We all try to make a better life for ourselves and our families. Pink IC is not a liability. You'll see when you're older.
The money he earns in Singapore (and the average Singaporean workers make in Singapore) is not enough for living in Singapore because everything is so expensive and everything is so expensive because Temasek needs the money to lose to foreigners.
The money the foreigners earn in Singapore, on the other hand is more than enough to live comfortably back home. Even his friends working at the same jobs back home can survive, much more when he is making Singapore wages.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
The money he earns in Singapore (and the average Singaporean workers make in Singapore) is not enough for living in Singapore because everything is so expensive and everything is so expensive because Temasek needs the money to lose to foreigners.
The money the foreigners earn in Singapore, on the other hand is more than enough to live comfortably back home. Even his friends working at the same jobs back home can survive, much more when he is making Singapore wages.
I don't disagree with what you said. Agree money goes a lot further in under developed third world countries. Life is expensive in First World Singapore. Even the little that you can buy is still better than the plenty that they can buy. You have uninterupted utility supplies although more expensive. You have acceptable (depends on your expectation here) public transport system. In fact Singapore public transport system is one of the cheapest in the developed world. You still can get $2 chicken rice which most in the developed world can't get. Singapore wage level is more or less the same as other developed countries. Some countries may have higher wage levels but they also have higher taxes so in the end works out to be the same. The only thing we don't have vs. other developed countries is social safety net. If you lose your job, you're on your own. If you used up your CPF, you're stuffed. What the government wants is for the children to support their parents. This doesn't really work in today's society. Besides many Singaporeans remains single or have no kids.
Plus another thing, how many Singaporeans are willing to work in construction sites or as domestic maid? How much are you willing to pay for a Singaporean domestic maid vs. Pinoy/Indon? There will always be foreigners doing jobs Singaporean won't do or won't want to pay enough for Singaporeans to do.
Originally posted by monday blue:
I don't disagree with what you said. Agree money goes a lot further in under developed third world countries. Life is expensive in First World Singapore. Even the little that you can buy is still better than the plenty that they can buy. You have uninterupted utility supplies although more expensive. You have acceptable (depends on your expectation here) public transport system. In fact Singapore public transport system is one of the cheapest in the developed world. You still can get $2 chicken rice which most in the developed world can't get. Singapore wage level is more or less the same as other developed countries. Some countries may have higher wage levels but they also have higher taxes so in the end works out to be the same. The only thing we don't have vs. other developed countries is social safety net. If you lose your job, you're on your own. If you used up your CPF, you're stuffed. What the government wants is for the children to support their parents. This doesn't really work in today's society. Besides many Singaporeans remains single or have no kids.Plus another thing, how many Singaporeans are willing to work in construction sites or as domestic maid? How much are you willing to pay for a Singaporean domestic maid vs. Pinoy/Indon? There will always be foreigners doing jobs Singaporean won't do or won't want to pay enough for Singaporeans to do.
the society is shaped by it ruler, if the ruler open its door and invite cheap labours to sustain an exporting economy dependency, you cannot blame Singaporeans for not taking up maid or heavy industries jobs.
Just imagine if there is no foreign labour here..no foreign maid, no foreign workers, just a bit of foreign talents, do you think singaporeans will not take up these menial jobs, do you think that boss wouldn't paid a high salary to get them. Because the option today is open, and such openness is created by our govt policy to open its labour market so as to enhance its economy.
In social economy, you need to balance the social and economy as a whole, swaying oneside toward economy growth while forsaking social entity can be diseaster. However, our govt dun see it this way, the past had already shown us our local singaporeans capability to handle the economy while building a family. If you study past history of social economy, in the 70s and 80s, there was no foreigners, and yet we bring the economy to it height and still have a baby booming period, today, our workforce is aging and yet with less birthrate, a complete different morale and motivation from our last generation kind of mood.
If you look at south Korea, where there is no foreign workers or even taiwan and japan, tho they have abit of foreign workers, but it is only a small percentage of them, their economy still sound goods and stable even with a geopolitical problem hanging with Nkorea and China.
In the end, my observation is that foreign workers might not be necessary or should be controlled, it encourage local to laze around resulting in poor income and less birthrate. Singaporeans, tho i may be in the new era of my generation, had lost it motivation and morale to build this country with the influx of foreigners. Like it or not, the govt is sole creation of this nation with it policies, they need to look at it more inwardly then outwardly, because the end result can be a total diseaster.
Angel
Originally posted by angel7030:
the society is shaped by it ruler, if the ruler open its door and invite cheap labours to sustain an exporting economy dependency, you cannot blame Singaporeans for not taking up maid or heavy industries jobs.
Just imagine if there is no foreign labour here..no foreign maid, no foreign workers, just a bit of foreign talents, do you think singaporeans will not take up these menial jobs, do you think that boss wouldn't paid a high salary to get them. Because the option today is open, and such openness is created by our govt policy to open its labour market so as to enhance its economy.
In social economy, you need to balance the social and economy as a whole, swaying oneside toward economy growth while forsaking social entity can be diseaster. However, our govt dun see it this way, the past had already shown us our local singaporeans capability to handle the economy while building a family. If you study past history of social economy, in the 70s and 80s, there was no foreigners, and yet we bring the economy to it height and still have a baby booming period, today, our workforce is aging and yet with less birthrate, a complete different morale and motivation from our last generation kind of mood.
If you look at south Korea, where there is no foreign workers or even taiwan and japan, tho they have abit of foreign workers, but it is only a small percentage of them, their economy still sound goods and stable even with a geopolitical problem hanging with Nkorea and China.
In the end, my observation is that foreign workers might not be necessary or should be controlled, it encourage local to laze around resulting in poor income and less birthrate. Singaporeans, tho i may be in the new era of my generation, had lost it motivation and morale to build this country with the influx of foreigners. Like it or not, the govt is sole creation of this nation with it policies, they need to look at it more inwardly then outwardly, because the end result can be a total diseaster.
Angel
I beg to differ. I believe Singapore will be worse off if we close our door to foreigners. Foreign labour allows many Singaporeans to be freed up to take up higher value added jobs. Of course in time of economic recession, there is a disconnection because people lose their jobs and starts blaming the foreigners. Foreigners lose their jobs too. Many are just sent home. Their complaints will not be heard. US which is the biggest destination for migrants, economic and otherwise, also suffers fallout from the current recession. They may be tighter now on their migrant intake for a while but I'm sure when the economy improves they will continue to welcome migrants. They know the value of migrants. The benefited immensely from contribution of migrants. Singapore is different because of it's limited space but it can still benefit from contribution of foreigners if managed wisely.
FYI, many factories in Koreas are using workers from the Philippines, China and South Asian countries. You don't see these foreigners if you only move around in Seoul. Taiwan is also a big destination for Filipino domestic maids. These countries knows the benefit of using foreign labour for low value added jobs to remain competitive.
Originally posted by monday blue:I beg to differ. I believe Singapore will be worse off if we close our door to foreigners. Foreign labour allows many Singaporeans to be freed up to take up higher value added jobs. Of course in time of economic recession, there is a disconnection because people lose their jobs and starts blaming the foreigners. Foreigners lose their jobs too. Many are just sent home. Their complaints will not be heard. US which is the biggest destination for migrants, economic and otherwise, also suffers fallout from the current recession. They may be tighter now on their migrant intake for a while but I'm sure when the economy improves they will continue to welcome migrants. They know the value of migrants. The benefited immensely from contribution of migrants. Singapore is different because of it's limited space but it can still benefit from contribution of foreigners if managed wisely.
FYI, many factories in Koreas are using workers from the Philippines, China and South Asian countries. You don't see these foreigners if you only move around in Seoul. Taiwan is also a big destination for Filipino domestic maids. These countries knows the benefit of using foreign labour for low value added jobs to remain competitive.
since you begged, nah, give you one of my morning breakfast you tiao.
I am not saying Foreigner workers are not good, I also employ foreign maids and workers, yes it does help our economy, i am suggesting that the govt should look for inward as there are about 20% of lower educated singaporeans still needed to find a job with a sustainable salary but it is difficult due to the growing cheap labour, and to those with U degree, they hv to face the FT.
At the end of the day, the govt must then question themselves why there is a slow down in birthrates.
I visited the hyundai plants in korea and mitsui electronic plant in Japan, when there is many jobs, yes, foreigners are welcome, but not so many, and when jobs is less, foreigners is first to go, their contract of services is not as wonderful as ours, there is not limit of 2 work permits, and they are not allow to roam anyhow, discipline is one of the strict factor in controlling their foreigners, and when the Koreans and taiwaness goes on strike, the foreigners better be gone. For you info, hyundai got no foreigners at all, one foreigner in only, the whole industry goes on strike.
Perhaps you should know that i am part taiwanese, the pinoy maids are only second rate in compare to local nanny maids, it is because they cannot get local taiwanese nannies, they had no choice but go for pinoys. I was brought up by taiwan maid from Alishan.
I add on to say that perhaps, these east developed countries had sufficient citizens to take over the jobs whereas we are getting lesser, their political background is totally different from us, unions and labour can anytime rules the country by wining votes, and if the have a policy of 1 local and 3 foreigners in their country, the street will be protest and down goes the govt.
Dependency on foreigners is good, but over dependency can be dangerous as singapore is already at the expense of MNC and later if at the expense of foreigner workers, local singaporeans will be gone.
Originally posted by monday blue:I beg to differ. I believe Singapore will be worse off if we close our door to foreigners. Foreign labour allows many Singaporeans to be freed up to take up higher value added jobs. Of course in time of economic recession, there is a disconnection because people lose their jobs and starts blaming the foreigners. Foreigners lose their jobs too. Many are just sent home. Their complaints will not be heard. US which is the biggest destination for migrants, economic and otherwise, also suffers fallout from the current recession. They may be tighter now on their migrant intake for a while but I'm sure when the economy improves they will continue to welcome migrants. They know the value of migrants. The benefited immensely from contribution of migrants. Singapore is different because of it's limited space but it can still benefit from contribution of foreigners if managed wisely.
FYI, many factories in Koreas are using workers from the Philippines, China and South Asian countries. You don't see these foreigners if you only move around in Seoul. Taiwan is also a big destination for Filipino domestic maids. These countries knows the benefit of using foreign labour for low value added jobs to remain competitive.
The key words to the debate on FT is "Foreign labour allows many Singaporeans to be freed up to take up higher value added jobs." not to take the jobs from our polygrad, fresh U grad, and even the ITE grads.
The point to angel's message, which I agree wholeheartedly, is that "you need to balance the social and economy as a whole, swaying oneside toward economy growth while forsaking social entity can be diseaster. " you can't compare US's immigration policy without considering the safety net that its government are providing to its people.
A country cannot be run like a corporation, with its leaders compared to CEO, and citizens like employees. In this modern era, employees are useful to the company only for what they can contribute, at the cheapest costs, or the company would bring in cheaper staff, or move to cheaper areas. It is difficult to tell the employee to be loyal to the company, or the country and get pay cut for the company's survival, while the CEO, the leaders write their own pay cheque and bonus, regardless of how the employees are feeling.
"the society is shaped by it ruler," more so in Singapore than in any other country, because of our diversity in races and religion. angel does have some quotable quotes, I guess when she thinks with her skirt on.
Foreign talents are essential but not to the extent of significantly bringing down the qualities of life in Singapore.
In the 90s, our population was less than 3million. Now, the total population (not sure if it includes foreigners) is fast reaching 5million. Close to half of the current population are non-Singapore born. Where is the sense of belonging? It is a crucial part of patriotism.
pity sporeans??
For what?
Go and look at the Q at the showflat!!
Some buyes make so much noise
damm it~! my choice unit Sold already!
Orchard Road condo sell until bo liao
noahnoah so rich buy condo
Originally posted by Spartans:Foreign talents are essential but not to the extent of significantly bringing down the qualities of life in Singapore.
In the 90s, our population was less than 3million. Now, the total population (not sure if it includes foreigners) is fast reaching 5million. Close to half of the current population are non-Singapore born. Where is the sense of belonging? It is a crucial part of patriotism.
there are 1.5 million local singaporeans at the workforce from the 90s 1.8 million, and the foreigners including the PR had increased from 500,000 to 1.2 million, heavy industries previously allow to employ 1 local is to 3 foreigners, now is 1 is to 5 foreigners, you employ a local supervisor, you can get 5 foreigners. 1.5+1.2= 2.5 millions working for an economy that is getting gloomy.
Patriotism will come on election day
Originally posted by noahnoah:
pity sporeans??
For what?
Go and look at the Q at the showflat!!
Some buyes make so much noise
damm it~! my choice unit Sold already!
Orchard Road condo sell until bo liao
Land alone in dist 9, 11 is going for S$1200 psf, building is over S$350 psf!! all bought over by Singaporean, pity who?
Originally posted by angel7030:
there are 1.5 million local singaporeans at the workforce from the 90s 1.8 million, and the foreigners including the PR had increased from 500,000 to 1.2 million, heavy industries previously allow to employ 1 local is to 3 foreigners, now is 1 is to 5 foreigners, you employ a local supervisor, you can get 5 foreigners. 1.5+1.2= 2.5 millions working for an economy that is getting gloomy.
Patriotism will come on election day
Election day!!!??? Money moves the world around, not patriotism.
Originally posted by eagle:noahnoah so rich buy condo
he got 2 private houses liao, what is condo to him??, commission so less,...sell private houses lah, one time sold few millions, 2% commission only, happy and laugh all the way to the bank liao
Originally posted by Spartans:Election day!!!??? Money moves the world around, not patriotism.
patriotism will shine only in war.
hor hor dun think everyone is suffering in recession now
.....
Many richs one are cashing out their extra money
to pump into investments now~~
While one is eating cai png
the other one is thinking which property to invest
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Land alone in dist 9, 11 is going for S$1200 psf, building is over S$350 psf!! all bought over by Singaporean, pity who?
How many Singaporeans over the total number of Singapore citizens?
If like to use extremes, then can also say got a certain billionaire foreigner investor come to Singapore. Pity who?
Originally posted by noahnoah:
hor hor dun think everyone is suffering in recession now
.....
Many richs one are cashing out their extra money
to pump into investments now~~
While one is eating cai png
the other one is thinking which property to invest
You sound like a prudent investor. Any tip on property investment?