Singapore healthcare
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Originally posted by charlize:
There is the common saying that it is better to die than to be sick in singapore.
Go figure.
hahaha... they charge so much and then claim that they are good/the best and that is like a 5 star hotel charging US$500/- a night and then claiming that the are the best.
If they are that good, let them charge 30 baht (S$1.50) like in Thailand and provide the same level of service as what they provide now in Singapore.
Is it any wonder that people say, "better to die than to be sick in singapore."?
For the price you pay, the service is f-up.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Actually the cost are you referring to? The cost of subsidies from the government or the cost to US citizens?When something is privatised, the cost of that service will escalate as compared to when it is under the premise of the government.
If a person can't afford to pay subsidised rates through medicare, then what makes one thing that he can afford to take a plane to Singapore, live in a hotel for afew days, go through a SG$25k to $50k operation, convalesce in the hospital ward for a week.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070619135151AAplSv1
If you look at the US census, the majority of folks who can't pay the medicare rates are the indigenous Indians, Blacks and Hispanics. Seriously, the medicare rates are similar to the medishield rates, if you have a proper job, you shouldn't have any problem paying it. Do you know the occupation for these three races? Do you think these folks have the financial resources to fly to Singapore for an operation? All these under privilege folks are not neglected (like what most would think), they have charitable hospitals for these folks to seek medical treatment.
Seriously, the quality of service between US and Singapore is different. It's also difficult to compare the cost levels, because both countries are at different stages of economic development.
Consider the cost of public hospitals in Hong Kong and Singapore. Why is the cost in Singapore so much more than in Hong Kong? Don't you think that you have been suckered by the regime? Both countries are similar in terms of resources, demography and economic development. But cost of medical services in Hong Kong is a fraction of Singapore's. Looking at the budget every year, it's strange that Singapore hospitals have no income whatsoever, but every year in the budget there is an apportionment of cost to health services.
Hong Kong Hospital Charges (With an exchange rate of HK$ 1 = SG$ 0.188)
A&E = SG$18.80
In-patient (General acute beds) = SG$28.20
Day procedure at Oncology and Renal Clinics = SG$15.04
General out-patient = SG$8.46
Link: Hong Kong Hospital Authority
I think we are violently in agreement
I was complaining about the high cost of medicare in the US, which is keeping out a majority of the population, and you're complaining about Singapore vs HK.The link you have provided shows a bypass surgery costs above 150K in the US, compared to 20K here. Isn't that in itself a failure of the US system? Sure someone with medicare would be able to afford it, but the fact that a surgery is so expensive is in itself a proof of systemic failure. The world superpower that spends so many trillions on defense, but doesn't have an affordable healthcare system!
In another thread I have shown how the govt here can easily subsidize healthcare for citizens. The problem is they don't want to: everything has to be run as a business, it's all profit-oriented.
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From another thread:
"Healthcare is certainly a bigger burden than transport, but I believe the government can lighten the burden on citizens.
For the past 4-5 years, public hospitals have been seeing around 300,000 admissions (outpatients are about ten times as many). Assuming all of them were citizens, and assuming the govt hands out $10,000 to each one (feel free to change that number, it is just a convenient one for me), it still adds up to just $3 billion a year.
Temasek lost more than $60 billion! That sum could have gone towards subsidizing healthcare for citizens for a couple of decades."
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Originally posted by Cram:
I think we are violently in agreement I was complaining about the high cost of medicare in the US, which is keeping out a majority of the population, and you're complaining about Singapore vs HK.The link you have provided shows a bypass surgery costs above 150K in the US, compared to 20K here. Isn't that in itself a failure of the US system? Sure someone with medicare would be able to afford it, but the fact that a surgery is so expensive is in itself a proof of systemic failure. The world superpower that spends so many trillions on defense, but doesn't have an affordable healthcare system!
In another thread I have shown how the govt here can easily subsidize healthcare for citizens. The problem is they don't want to: everything has to be run as a business, it's all profit-oriented.
Isn't this topic about "Singapore Healthcare"?I think I mentioned in a previous thread regarding the cost of bypass surgery in US and Singapore. We are at different stages of economic development, therefore the cost of the bypass differs. How much does an average worker get in US compared to Singapore? I also mentioned that although the cost of the bypass could be as high as US$150,000, but with Medicare the patient only needs pay approximately US$30k plus. There are also charitable hospitals providing healthcare services for those under-privileged Blacks, Hispanics and indigenous Indians. Also medicare isn't that expensive that it's unaffordable, it's probably those under-privileged don't hold a stable job, most likely that they are gang bangers.
US healthcare cost is on the expensive side, due to privatisation. Like any privatised industry, it will be subject to profit maximisation, therefore higher prices. But this should not deter would the needy from seeking treatment when it's needed, hence the existence of community hospitals to serve the needs of these groups of individuals. Don't be mistaken to assume that "inability to afford medicare means no treatment" and there are 25% of Americans lying on the streets awaiting their eventual death. Do you think that it's even possible to seek treatment if you don't have any money or medisave in Singapore?
They probably ask the patient to go through all the different government agencies to seek help, by the time they get to the last agency, they would have probably succumbed to their illness. "According to recent AHRQ research, about 25 percent of Americans under age 65 lack health insurance at some point during the year. The hospitals in a community collectively serve as an important element of the safety net to treat people who are uninsured and cannot afford to pay the full cost. In a 2000 report, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) stated that the safety net was "intact but endangered" and cautioned that many of the institutions caring for the uninsured, Medicaid patients, and other vulnerable populations face uncertain financial futures. Therefore the IOM recommended improved monitoring of the structure, capacity, and financial stability of the safety net. "
http://www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk8/factbk8a.htm
FYI, the healthcare in Singapore isn't heavily subsidized for the majority, it's made to "seem" like it's heavily subsidised (just like our famed "subsidised" HDB homes). There are no financial statements from any of the public hospitals to show how heavily subsidized it is. Compare the prices of public hospitals in Hong Kong and Singapore, you will see the stark contrast. Hong Kong has similar characteristics as Singapore, so it's a good candidate for comparison.
Hong Kong Hospital Charges (With an exchange rate of HK$ 1 = SG$ 0.188)
A&E = SG$18.80
In-patient (General acute beds) = SG$28.20
Day procedure at Oncology and Renal Clinics = SG$15.04
General out-patient = SG$8.46
Link: Hong Kong Hospital Authority
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Originally posted by Cram:
From another thread:
"Healthcare is certainly a bigger burden than transport, but I believe the government can lighten the burden on citizens.
For the past 4-5 years, public hospitals have been seeing around 300,000 admissions (outpatients are about ten times as many). Assuming all of them were citizens, and assuming the govt hands out $10,000 to each one (feel free to change that number, it is just a convenient one for me), it still adds up to just $3 billion a year.
Temasek lost more than $60 billion! That sum could have gone towards subsidizing healthcare for citizens for a couple of decades."
Government handing out $10,000 per patient?
Yah right! The cost of the procedure is probably $10,000, they mark up to $40,000, then they give you a discount of $10,000, in the end they still make $30,000.
This isn't unlike the high markup followed by a discount policy in some departmental stores when they advertise SALE.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Government handing out $10,000 per patient?
Yah right! The cost of the procedure is probably $10,000, they mark up to $40,000, then they give you a discount of $10,000, in the end they still make $30,000.
This isn't unlike the high markup followed by a discount policy in some departmental stores when they advertise SALE.
yeah lah i know i sound like a dreamer. but you are being too cynical. my point about the US was: the system has been a failure because the state has failed in its duty to provide affordable healthcare. but i guess i must agree the singapore system is worse as there is no such thing as charity here. so, no charitable hospitals. if sick, better die. or better still, go to JB and die there. cheaper.!
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Originally posted by Cram: yeah lah i know i sound like a dreamer. but you are being too cynical.
my point about the US was: the system has been a failure because the state has failed in its duty to provide affordable healthcare. but i guess i must agree the singapore system is worse as there is no such thing as charity here. so, no charitable hospitals. if sick, better die. or better still, go to JB and die there. cheaper.!
I am not being cynical, just being realistic.
You don't see any financial statements from the hospitals to show income. So where does the income go? I can't deny that US healthcare isn't cheap, but the saving grace is, if you can't afford full cost healthcare, you can still go to the community hospitals to seek treatment.
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hey, khaw had asked drs to make $. drs trying to put patients as private patients to minimise the subsidy cost from govt. carry book one side, the other side carry sword.
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I just want to address Deepak C's comment, which contains much misinformation and prejudice. I am a Singaporean living in the States. Some facts which you don't know:
1. You have to be over the age of 65 to receive medicare. You have to be destitute to receive Medicaid. As in you cannot own any assets such as house or car. Even making minimum wage is too much to qualify. If you own a house, you have to sell it and b/c homeless, run through all the money and then you can apply for medicaid.
2. Everyone else has to go with private insurance. If you work for a large group such as microsoft, or the government or a university, you can buy their group plan which is cost effective because it is a large group. But if you get sick and lose your job you lose your insurance. Then when you need it most you won't have it. If you are an entrepreneur, work for a small company or a contract worker, it is more than likely that you have nothing because your employer cannot afford it. Your suggestion that uninsured people in the US are gangbangers is ignorant and racist. You can buy an individual plan which costs about US$400/month with a $2500 deductible. Which means if you get sick, your plan will not start paying until you have paid out $2500 yourself. Which means you can count on spending at least US$4800 per year. If you do get a serious illness you will spend US $7300 before the HIC will chip in anything. More than likely they will refuse to pay, they will say your treatment is unnecessary even if it is. You spend all your time fighting them while every moment the cancer grows inside you. That's if you are lucky. More likely is that they just drop you. this is known as recission. There is no law to prevent them from doing this. You will then be discharged from the hospital within an hour and sent home to die. This is perfectly legal.
Many insurance plans are scams which you only discover when you need to use it. The language is so obtuse it is impossible to understand. There are no laws against this.
3. More than 30% of premiums to private insurers is taken up in adminstrative costs and profits. Unsuprisingly doctors spend 30% of their time filling out forms.
4. There is no direct or indirect regulation of prices. When you go to the Doctor here and you have no insurance. You have to pay a highly inflated price. Where an insurance company pays $80. You will pay $240. They gouge the most vulnerable citizens. If you cannot pay they will take your house and you will declare bankruptcy. Over 1 million people this year are estimated to go bankrupt due to medical costs. Doctors and hospitals are not required to post prices. So going to the Doctor is like Russian Roulette or like going to restaurant, eating and then paying whatever the owner decides you should pay. You and your HIC can be paying $4000 for an operation but the person next to you $2000, depending on what kind of insurance or none.
5. County hospitals are a cesspool worse than any hospital in India even. Only large cities have them and the waits in emergency rooms can be up to 12 hours. It's very sad. This is also because, it is the only place the 50 million uninsured can go, even then they will only stabilize you. You won't get a bypass or chemo there. They will stabilize you and send you home to die. Even if the treatment is available.
6. Although the USA is a "wealthy country", the wealth is very unevenly distributed. Most Americans live hand to mouth and are unable to get ahead. Many are in incredible debt because education is expensive and health care exorbitant. Per hour wages have been stagnant for 10 years.
7. Singapore's per capita GDP is higher than the US's. Which tells you Americans pay a much larger portion of their income for health care and get less for it than Singaporeans.
8. you have to get pre-approved for every expense by your HIC including ambulance fees. So if you are in a car accident, while your guts are all over the road. You are expected to call your insurer and beg them to allow you an ambulance.
9. More than 50 million in the US have no insurance whatsoever and at least 100 million are underinsured, meaning their plans are practically worthless.
So what I am trying to say is: Love that Medisave, Medishield, Medifund and buy that NTUC preferred private insurance thingy. I do. Because it could be so, so much worse.
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yalor, i alway told them that NTUC and PAP is good but they keep condemning them, that is why i said, living in heaven but still think it is hell, until they really reach hell, then they know that here is heaven.
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Originally posted by zztop74:
I just want to address Deepak C's comment, which contains much misinformation and prejudice. I am a Singaporean living in the States. Some facts which you don't know:
1. You have to be over the age of 65 to receive medicare. You have to be destitute to receive Medicaid. As in you cannot own any assets such as house or car. Even making minimum wage is too much to qualify. If you own a house, you have to sell it and b/c homeless, run through all the money and then you can apply for medicaid.
2. Everyone else has to go with private insurance. If you work for a large group such as microsoft, or the government or a university, you can buy their group plan which is cost effective because it is a large group. But if you get sick and lose your job you lose your insurance. Then when you need it most you won't have it. If you are an entrepreneur, work for a small company or a contract worker, it is more than likely that you have nothing because your employer cannot afford it. Your suggestion that uninsured people in the US are gangbangers is ignorant and racist. You can buy an individual plan which costs about US$400/month with a $2500 deductible. Which means if you get sick, your plan will not start paying until you have paid out $2500 yourself. Which means you can count on spending at least US$4800 per year. If you do get a serious illness you will spend US $7300 before the HIC will chip in anything. More than likely they will refuse to pay, they will say your treatment is unnecessary even if it is. You spend all your time fighting them while every moment the cancer grows inside you. That's if you are lucky. More likely is that they just drop you. this is known as recission. There is no law to prevent them from doing this. You will then be discharged from the hospital within an hour and sent home to die. This is perfectly legal.
Many insurance plans are scams which you only discover when you need to use it. The language is so obtuse it is impossible to understand. There are no laws against this.
3. More than 30% of premiums to private insurers is taken up in adminstrative costs and profits. Unsuprisingly doctors spend 30% of their time filling out forms.
4. There is no direct or indirect regulation of prices. When you go to the Doctor here and you have no insurance. You have to pay a highly inflated price. Where an insurance company pays $80. You will pay $240. They gouge the most vulnerable citizens. If you cannot pay they will take your house and you will declare bankruptcy. Over 1 million people this year are estimated to go bankrupt due to medical costs. Doctors and hospitals are not required to post prices. So going to the Doctor is like Russian Roulette or like going to restaurant, eating and then paying whatever the owner decides you should pay. You and your HIC can be paying $4000 for an operation but the person next to you $2000, depending on what kind of insurance or none.
5. County hospitals are a cesspool worse than any hospital in India even. Only large cities have them and the waits in emergency rooms can be up to 12 hours. It's very sad. This is also because, it is the only place the 50 million uninsured can go, even then they will only stabilize you. You won't get a bypass or chemo there. They will stabilize you and send you home to die. Even if the treatment is available.
6. Although the USA is a "wealthy country", the wealth is very unevenly distributed. Most Americans live hand to mouth and are unable to get ahead. Many are in incredible debt because education is expensive and health care exorbitant. Per hour wages have been stagnant for 10 years.
7. Singapore's per capita GDP is higher than the US's. Which tells you Americans pay a much larger portion of their income for health care and get less for it than Singaporeans.
8. you have to get pre-approved for every expense by your HIC including ambulance fees. So if you are in a car accident, while your guts are all over the road. You are expected to call your insurer and beg them to allow you an ambulance.
9. More than 50 million in the US have no insurance whatsoever and at least 100 million are underinsured, meaning their plans are practically worthless.
So what I am trying to say is: Love that Medisave, Medishield, Medifund and buy that NTUC preferred private insurance thingy. I do. Because it could be so, so much worse.
Thank you very much for such informative sharing. I heard something from my colleagues in the US, but really don't understand, and I guess as long as they are employed, they don't really bother. When I was in atlanta, I saw so many senior citizens, how are they taken cared of in health care?
The american told me that the UK is worse, many have to queue a long time to get treated or small operation, is it true?
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
hahaha... they charge so much and then claim that they are good/the best and that is like a 5 star hotel charging US$500/- a night and then claiming that the are the best.
If they are that good, let them charge 30 baht (S$1.50) like in Thailand and provide the same level of service as what they provide now in Singapore.
Is it any wonder that people say, "better to die than to be sick in singapore."?
For the price you pay, the service is f-up.
30 baht + airfare + hotel accomdation + massage + facial + foods + drinking + touring..wha lau more thatn 1 k liao.Yo, poor singaporeans like to go thailand to get medical attention, but the thais elites alway like to come Singapore to seek medicate attention.
Kuay teow, song tam, pak thai, tom yam gong, ka pao moo, ka pao kai, etc etc also 30 baht...but then i go toilet many times leh.
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This is addressed to sgdiehard:
Americans over the age of 65 are automatically covered by a program known as Medicare. It is like a single payer system. Almost everything is included. The quality is not great. Some parts of the country better than others. But most senior citizens use it and appreciate it. It's ok. The problem is what do you do till you are 65? If you work fulltime for a large corporation, university or government you'll be fine. As long as you don't lose your job, or worse, get sick and lose your job. Then for sure mati.
Many Americans don't believe that health care is a right. They believe it is earned like a car or a house. They don't like the idea of anyone receiving something they haven't earned. So there are very few government provided/subsidized services. This mindset is changing as the economy becomes more fragile and people realize how vulnerable they are. But there are very powerful special interests which make change difficult. Insurance Companies make obscene profits, their CEOs make millions per year. And they are major contributors to politician's campaigns.
President Obama's mother died young (50s) of Ovarian cancer, her last days spent arguing with her insurance company. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor could not get insurance for grandchild as the child had a congenital/genetic condition. Hardly anyone is immune to the system's cruelty. The government is currently debating a government run insurance program like Medishield. I hope it passes. 20 000 people die every year from lack of insurance.
Obama's campaign organization has morphed into a wing of the Democratic National Party called Organizing for America. AS part of the national debate they set up a website where citizens can tell their own health care stories. If you are interested you can read some here http://stories.barackobama.com/healthcare They will break your heart.
So yes, at the first sign of major illness, I'm coming home. Probably even before that! It's very grating to live where there is so much poverty and unfairness.
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Originally posted by zztop74:
This is addressed to sgdiehard:
Americans over the age of 65 are automatically covered by a program known as Medicare. It is like a single payer system. Almost everything is included. The quality is not great. Some parts of the country better than others. But most senior citizens use it and appreciate it. It's ok. The problem is what do you do till you are 65? If you work fulltime for a large corporation, university or government you'll be fine. As long as you don't lose your job, or worse, get sick and lose your job. Then for sure mati.
Many Americans don't believe that health care is a right. They believe it is earned like a car or a house. They don't like the idea of anyone receiving something they haven't earned. So there are very few government provided/subsidized services. This mindset is changing as the economy becomes more fragile and people realize how vulnerable they are. But there are very powerful special interests which make change difficult. Insurance Companies make obscene profits, their CEOs make millions per year. And they are major contributors to politician's campaigns.
President Obama's mother died young (50s) of Ovarian cancer, her last days spent arguing with her insurance company. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor could not get insurance for grandchild as the child had a congenital/genetic condition. Hardly anyone is immune to the system's cruelty. The government is currently debating a government run insurance program like Medishield. I hope it passes. 20 000 people die every year from lack of insurance.
Obama's campaign organization has morphed into a wing of the Democratic National Party called Organizing for America. AS part of the national debate they set up a website where citizens can tell their own health care stories. If you are interested you can read some here http://stories.barackobama.com/healthcare They will break your heart.
So yes, at the first sign of major illness, I'm coming home. Probably even before that! It's very grating to live where there is so much poverty and unfairness.
Thanks ZZtop, short term travelling to these countries really never give us such insight into issues like this. enjoy your stay there and welcome home anytime.
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Originally posted by zztop74:
I just want to address Deepak C's comment, which contains much misinformation and prejudice. I am a Singaporean living in the States. Some facts which you don't know:
1. You have to be over the age of 65 to receive medicare. You have to be destitute to receive Medicaid. As in you cannot own any assets such as house or car. Even making minimum wage is too much to qualify. If you own a house, you have to sell it and b/c homeless, run through all the money and then you can apply for medicaid.
2. Everyone else has to go with private insurance. If you work for a large group such as microsoft, or the government or a university, you can buy their group plan which is cost effective because it is a large group. But if you get sick and lose your job you lose your insurance. Then when you need it most you won't have it. If you are an entrepreneur, work for a small company or a contract worker, it is more than likely that you have nothing because your employer cannot afford it. Your suggestion that uninsured people in the US are gangbangers is ignorant and racist. You can buy an individual plan which costs about US$400/month with a $2500 deductible. Which means if you get sick, your plan will not start paying until you have paid out $2500 yourself. Which means you can count on spending at least US$4800 per year. If you do get a serious illness you will spend US $7300 before the HIC will chip in anything. More than likely they will refuse to pay, they will say your treatment is unnecessary even if it is. You spend all your time fighting them while every moment the cancer grows inside you. That's if you are lucky. More likely is that they just drop you. this is known as recission. There is no law to prevent them from doing this. You will then be discharged from the hospital within an hour and sent home to die. This is perfectly legal.
Many insurance plans are scams which you only discover when you need to use it. The language is so obtuse it is impossible to understand. There are no laws against this.
3. More than 30% of premiums to private insurers is taken up in adminstrative costs and profits. Unsuprisingly doctors spend 30% of their time filling out forms.
4. There is no direct or indirect regulation of prices. When you go to the Doctor here and you have no insurance. You have to pay a highly inflated price. Where an insurance company pays $80. You will pay $240. They gouge the most vulnerable citizens. If you cannot pay they will take your house and you will declare bankruptcy. Over 1 million people this year are estimated to go bankrupt due to medical costs. Doctors and hospitals are not required to post prices. So going to the Doctor is like Russian Roulette or like going to restaurant, eating and then paying whatever the owner decides you should pay. You and your HIC can be paying $4000 for an operation but the person next to you $2000, depending on what kind of insurance or none.
5. County hospitals are a cesspool worse than any hospital in India even. Only large cities have them and the waits in emergency rooms can be up to 12 hours. It's very sad. This is also because, it is the only place the 50 million uninsured can go, even then they will only stabilize you. You won't get a bypass or chemo there. They will stabilize you and send you home to die. Even if the treatment is available.
6. Although the USA is a "wealthy country", the wealth is very unevenly distributed. Most Americans live hand to mouth and are unable to get ahead. Many are in incredible debt because education is expensive and health care exorbitant. Per hour wages have been stagnant for 10 years.
7. Singapore's per capita GDP is higher than the US's. Which tells you Americans pay a much larger portion of their income for health care and get less for it than Singaporeans.
8. you have to get pre-approved for every expense by your HIC including ambulance fees. So if you are in a car accident, while your guts are all over the road. You are expected to call your insurer and beg them to allow you an ambulance.
9. More than 50 million in the US have no insurance whatsoever and at least 100 million are underinsured, meaning their plans are practically worthless.
So what I am trying to say is: Love that Medisave, Medishield, Medifund and buy that NTUC preferred private insurance thingy. I do. Because it could be so, so much worse.
How long have you been living in the US to know it so well like you think you do? Have you ever applied for any of the government sponsored medical services before? I hope you are not telling us that you live in the US so that it can lend credence to all your statements. I have a feeling that you are someone's clone, you registered a nick specially to retort my post.
I could be wrong. 1. Some of your statements are just pure BS. You need to be a destitute before you qualify for Medicaid?
There are income caps based on monthly income and SSI. If you own a beachfront property and a porsche (being asset rich and cash poor), surely you don't expect the government to pay for your medical bills, or do you? Medicaid is available to the poor, unlike what you claim it to be, apart from that they also receive monthly Food Stamps. Does the Singapore government pay any medical bills for the poor or give Food Stamps to the poor?"Families supported by low-wage workers generally have access to a range of government supplements aimed at preventing extreme economic hardship. In families with two or more children, the Earned Income Tax Credit provides a supplement of 40 percent of the worker’s wage up to a maximum of $3,850, or about $320 per month. All low-income households with low amounts of assets qualify for Food Stamp benefits. For families of three with earnings of $400 per month, the Food Stamp benefit is equal to about $310 per month. All children and many adults in low-income families qualify for Medicaid coverage. Housing benefits and child care subsidies add to the supplementary package for low-wage workers in low-income families. But not all low-income families have access to all benefits (especially housing and child care), and many families do not claim the benefits that are available. A major challenge is to make existing government income support programs more accessible to low-wage workers in low-income families."
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/herman/reports/futurework/conference/low-wage.htm
2. My statement about Hispanics and Afro-Americans being gangbangers is a statement of fact, not a derogatory statement, try to distinguish the difference if you can.
Facts which you can't disprove! "Officials reported 46% of all gangs were Hispanic/Latino, 34% African American, 12% Causcasian, and 6% Asian. A third of all gangs were reported as having significant numbers of more than one ethnic group. "
http://www.uic.edu/orgs/kbc/Floors/Facts.html
No insurance in the world pays you 100% for whatever you are insured against!!!
It's their way of reducing adverse selection and moral hazard!!! Do you think that Singapore's private/public medical insurance is any different from USA? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance
3. Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that 30% of administrative cost is taken out by doctor's filling up forms or are you trying to discredit a system which you have a disdain for.
FYI, doctors don't fill up forms, it's normally filled up by the patients and handed over to the doctor's administrative assistant for processing, just like how they do it all over the world, it's called specialisation of labour. 4. I agree that US healthcare cost is on the high side, but that's the price you pay for having a privatised healthcare system, it tend to drive prices up because hospitals seek to provide you with the best medical care (more advanced equipment and specialist). Ultimately, would you prefer to have your surgery done in SGH or John Hopkins?
5. I can't verify the waiting time in US, but I have ever waited 9 hours for a bed in SGH, went around noon, but they didn't have any available beds till 9-10pm that night.
My friend's mom gets admitted quite frequently, most of the time she gets upgraded to A1 or B1 in TTSH because there wasn't any available beds in C wards, but then they will rush to discharge you even before the patient has fully recovered. How many community (safety net and secondary safety nets hospitals) are there to serve the 50 million Americans? You made it sound like as if the ratio of patients to hospitals are so insurmountable. 
http://www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk8/factbk8a.htm
http://www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk8/fbk8fig19.htm
6. If the income of US is evenly distributed, then each citizen would get around US$46,892 (the GDP per capita of US). Is that too little for an average American?
Education too expensive? Are you looking at things from a American citizen's perspective or a foreign student's perspective? If you look at the world from a Singaporean's perspective, everything in countries of similar GDP per capita is expensive. Why? It's because Singaporean's wages has been severely retarded by the government, the cost of doing business in Singapore has been severely inflated by other capitals, therefore wages has to be compromised to make the cost of doing business in Singapore affordable.Tuition and Fees: Tuition and fees are based upon rates established by the State Legislature and/or the University of Houston Board of Regents and are determined by residence status and the number of hours taken.
For 2008, a Texas resident enrolled for 15 graduate credit hours paid approximately $5,100 in tuition and fees; a student enrolled in six graduate hours paid approximately $2,900. For out of state (i.e., non-Texas resident) students, these figures are about $9,700 and $4,900, respectively. Rates for international students are the same as non-resident students. Costs of tuition and fees for nine week, or twelve-week summer sessions are the same as Fall and Spring; six-week sessions are slightly lower. Check the university's website for the latest tuition and fee rates at www.uh.edu/sfs.
http://www.sw.uh.edu/admissions/beforeyouapply.php
7. How much is per hour manufacturing wages in the US?
Is US$23.60 considered too little for you? Say a person works a 5 day week, 9 hours a day, his salary will be US$4,551. How much does a Singaporean (GDP per capita of US$37,000 [approx.]) working in a manufacturing industry in Singapore gets? Food for thought, where did all the money in Singapore go to? Get your facts right, a large chunk of Americans using safety net hospitals don't even pay for healthcare and according to you it's 50 million. So why are you contradicting yourself now? 
8. Do you have cases to cite (that it actually occured and not a construct of your fantasies) or is it all conjectures?
9. So being under-insured is worthless, then why bother with being insured in the first place?
You "claimed" that you lived in the USA, but you bought NTUC insurance. Most of the folks (quitters) I know, who managed to get a foothold in the more democratic countries don't even look back at Singapore when they get themselves settled in those countries. So, are you one of those under-achievers who can't compete and make it out in the real world, so you choose to come back to Singapore to live in a more protected environment?
Love that Medisave, Medishield and Medifund? Buy NTUC insurance? Are you one of those cyber agents? There is a difference between USA's Medicare, Medicaid compared to Singapore's Medisave, Medishield and Medifund. The US Medicare and Medicaid is funded by the government and not by individual citizens, it's more like a benefit provided by the US government to her citizens.
Singapore's Medisave and Medishield are funds derived from her citizens itself. If you don't have Medisave or Medishield, where can you go to seek treatment? Medishield doesn't cover you for ALL the medical eventualities, it only provides you to claim a certain amount, you still have to come up with some cash for the medical procedures. Even specialist visits in government hospitals, you are expected to come up with cash to pay for consultation and medication, unlike the safety net hospitals in USA. As of end of last year, there are approximately 600,000 Singaporeans not convered by Medishield (ie about 16.7% not covered by Medishield), this is about the same percentage as the 50 million of the 300 million population in USA. But then again, there are safety net hospitals for Americans to turn to, where can the 600,000 Singaporeans turn to? Medisave is compulsory savings, Medishield a public insurance program, not a perquisite of citizenship in Singapore, unlike the Medicare and Medicaid in USA, which is provided to her citizens by government funding. If the US government wanted to institute Medisave/Medishield, all the US Senate has to do is come up with a bill, to make it compulsory for citizens to set aside a certain percentage of their income, for future medical expenses.
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yalor, singapore is truly health care, and peoples still dun appreciate it, in other countries, where got health care,,even i my native taiwan, you hv to do buy your own insurance only if your are rich enough, for those poor ones, they have to buy group one, which is more lousy and waiting for half day to seek medical attention, I asked my cousin there, she told me we got health care, they got hellcare
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"i make sure that everyone, every singaporeans, no matter who you are, what you are, you will not be deprive of medical care in any circumstances."
My Uncle, Goh Chok Tong
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Originally posted by angel7030:
yalor, singapore is truly health care, and peoples still dun appreciate it, in other countries, where got health care,,even i my native taiwan, you hv to do buy your own insurance only if your are rich enough, for those poor ones, they have to buy group one, which is more lousy and waiting for half day to seek medical attention, I asked my cousin there, she told me we got health care, they got hellcare
really ah? then what about Malaysia - people buy no insurance and no need pay when they go govt hospital to give birth. only pay admin fee.please gather all the facts before you talk crap.
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Govt and private healthcare different lar
You pay more money to see private spec
u always get friendly smile de....
For Govt~
Hello~How are u
Are u still alive
Please wait outside
~ ok there it goes take ur med
Come back and see me next round
It goes on and on
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
really ah? then what about Malaysia - people buy no insurance and no need pay when they go govt hospital to give birth. only pay admin fee.please gather all the facts before you talk crap.
malaysian elites come very often to our hospital for operation ok, you think those doctor in malaysia dun can perform operation ar?? they may leave a scissor in your stomach hor.Even Chinese Malaysian Doctors are practising here, no only you earn more, but you gain more knowledge with advance medical technology and the know how, know why. Everything come with a price, malaysia insurance framework is a total diseaster, nothing happen till you claim. What admin fees, singaporeans go KK free, just use the medisave and more over, govt gives you lots of rebate and one to one saving for having babies
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Originally posted by angel7030:
yalor, singapore is truly health care, and peoples still dun appreciate it, in other countries, where got health care,,even i my native taiwan, you hv to do buy your own insurance only if your are rich enough, for those poor ones, they have to buy group one, which is more lousy and waiting for half day to seek medical attention, I asked my cousin there, she told me we got health care, they got hellcare
Singapore you pay money to get healthcare, Taiwan you pay money to get healthcare. But then Taiwan is not healthcare and Singapore is healthcare?
Singapore you have to buy your own insurance, Taiwan you have to buy your own insurance too.
If Singapore healthcare system is healthcare, I wonder what would that make Hong Kong, USA, UK and Australia?
Hong Kong's hospital charges all based in Hong Kong Dollars.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
malaysian elites come very often to our hospital for operation ok, you think those doctor in malaysia dun can perform operation ar?? they may leave a scissor in your stomach hor.Even Chinese Malaysian Doctors are practising here, no only you earn more, but you gain more knowledge with advance medical technology and the know how, know why. Everything come with a price, malaysia insurance framework is a total diseaster, nothing happen till you claim. What admin fees, singaporeans go KK free, just use the medisave and more over, govt gives you lots of rebate and one to one saving for having babies
plp dun talk crap. you love licking pap ha ha ha
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Originally posted by angel7030:
malaysian elites come very often to our hospital for operation ok, you think those doctor in malaysia dun can perform operation ar?? they may leave a scissor in your stomach hor.Even Chinese Malaysian Doctors are practising here, no only you earn more, but you gain more knowledge with advance medical technology and the know how, know why. Everything come with a price, malaysia insurance framework is a total diseaster, nothing happen till you claim. What admin fees, singaporeans go KK free, just use the medisave and more over, govt gives you lots of rebate and one to one saving for having babies
Use Medisave does not mean it's free every month part of you salary goes to Medisave. Some folks really stupid, just because they don't see the cashflow like physically paying for the service, they think it's free.
Medisave is money belonging to you, set aside by the government, money that is illiquid, even if you are dying of hunger, you can't touch it.
Some folks are happy with the price of the service after being given a subsidy, right after the service has been marked up afew hundred percent. It's like a handbag shop marking up a $100 item to $300, then giving a 50% discount to her customers.
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Originally posted by noahnoah:
Govt and private healthcare different lar
You pay more money to see private spec
u always get friendly smile de....
For Govt~
Hello~How are u
Are u still alive
Please wait outside
~ ok there it goes take ur med
Come back and see me next round
It goes on and on
For company doctor more fast,
Me: Morning Doctor,
Doc: Yes?
Me: i got flu, stomach pain,,cannot sleep
Doc: ok ok, i give you some medicines
Me: but doc, i got to work and yesterday i cannot sleep...
Doc: ok, one day mc
Me: bye bye
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Use Medisave does not mean it's free every month part of you salary goes to Medisave. Some folks really stupid, just because they don't see the cashflow like physically paying for the service, they think it's free.
Medisave is money belonging to you, set aside by the government, money that is illiquid, even if you are dying of hunger, you can't touch it.
Her his mind all for healthcare good in singapore by her beloved pap she will not take what others have to say about facts and reality.
yee ko ah bay see kway la!