Conscript system is causing rifts in society
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
OK. So is going to NS against your wishes.. discipline or blind obedience ?
being disciplined is a good character trait, it's about self restraint and prioritising
obedience just means obeying orders. being disciplined and being obedient are 2 different things, it's a SINGLISH thing to equate them
going to NS against your wishes means obedience to the conscription of singapore. that's the thing about obedience, you can disagree, but you will still obey
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Originally posted by skythewood:
Well, they are of legal age to smoke and drink, so they can do that...
i'm also of legal age, but i don't smoke.
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Originally posted by candiz:
being disciplined is a good character trait, it's about self restraint and prioritising
obedience just means obeying orders. being disciplined and being obedient are 2 different things, it's a SINGLISH thing to equate them
going to NS against your wishes means obedience to the conscription of singapore. that's the thing about obedience, you can disagree, but you will still obey
Something well said . Obedience and discipline should not be confused.
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dun ever forget, if there's no army back then, we might just be easily bullied by M'sia. and also if there's no stability, no one would have wanted to come to Singapore to invest back then.
I dun even believe it causes rifts though I admit there are people who ended up 'bullied' by the system be it medically (i.e. ppl who aren't even combat fit end up classified as PES B or combat fit by a panel of MOs rather than specialist) or psychologically.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I agree with you.
Discipline starts from home not conscript into slavery.
Serve two years to protect country with 35% foreigners.
Rubbish.
The only question touch your heart, do you love your country first?Never mind abt e foreigners, this land might not have any feelings for them
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honestly if i'm a guy i won't mind going for NS. maybe i may complain abit but at the end of the day it's to protect the country. if you guys don't do it, then who will?
i do respect guys who go for NS. even though i'm not sure if you guys can really fight in a real war
, i'm still assured by the fact that s'pore has its own pool of citizen army. -
Originally posted by candiz:
honestly if i'm a guy i won't mind going for NS. maybe i may complain abit but at the end of the day it's to protect the country. if you guys don't do it, then who will?
i do respect guys who go for NS. even though i'm not sure if you guys can really fight in a real war
, i'm still assured by the fact that s'pore has its own pool of citizen army.
dun forget in times of war, we're still e ones biting the bullet for your -
It is not so much going to NS as in going to NS for the sake of FOREIGNERS invited here by the cursed despot and his cronies.
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It seems like people who complain the most about the evils of the NS system have never actually been in NS.
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Originally posted by candiz:
being disciplined is a good character trait, it's about self restraint and prioritising
obedience just means obeying orders. being disciplined and being obedient are 2 different things, it's a SINGLISH thing to equate them
going to NS against your wishes means obedience to the conscription of singapore. that's the thing about obedience, you can disagree, but you will still obey
Going to NS means learning to be responsible for things beyond your responsibility and knowledge. Discipline means followings orders even if the orders are wrong or illegal and being responsible for executing the orders. -
some people like to think they are fighting for foreigners... that's like bull shit.
or maybe they think other country have ZERO foreigners.
They cannot think of fighting for their own countrymen, family and friends, and INSIST on using the foreigners, who won't want to STAY HERE if there is a war, as an excuse.
Maybe they are thinking of running to other country and be a FOREIGNER there, and expect that country's ARMY to protect them.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
some people like to think they are fighting for foreigners... that's like bull shit.
or maybe they think other country have ZERO foreigners.
They cannot think of fighting for their own countrymen, family and friends, and INSIST on using the foreigners, who won't want to STAY HERE if there is a war, as an excuse.
Maybe they are thinking of running to other country and be a FOREIGNER there, and expect that country's ARMY to protect them.
I do agree males serving NS is necessary for Singapore.
But have you wondered why this perception of them thinking they are "fighting for foreigners" comes about?
Rational or irrational, this perception must be addressed for the good of the COUNTRY.
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Originally posted by charlize:
I do agree males serving NS is necessary for Singapore.
But have you wondered why this perception of them thinking they are "fighting for foreigners" comes about?
Rational or irrational, this perception must be addressed for the good of the COUNTRY.
They can protest all they want about the foreigners thingie, not my problem. Just bring up valid points, and people will support them.
But using that as an excuse to not fight, is inconsistent with their plan to be a foreigner themselves in another country should war comes.
Yup, address the issue.
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Some people are nothing but running dogs.
I won't mention names.
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But have you wondered why this perception of them thinking they are "fighting for foreigners" comes about?
That's obvious isn't it?
Just step out of your house.
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Originally posted by Socialist:
In Singapore, The boys spend 2.5 years of their life serving the nation. The boys loose out in employment opportunities by 2 years. Then they lose the pechant to study further due to the long NS duty and numerous psychological taunts in NS by their superiors. The girls climb the career ladder and as a result do not want to marry and settle down with the boys who are left behind. And factor in the foreign women influx, men shun away from local women, disregard them and generalise them. The girls also grew up in a life of luxury and are generally apathetic to political or social affairs in the state . Clearly evident, in their lack of understanding about the conscript system and purpose, state governance and its associated problems , one being the boys who have to compete with foreigners for jobs and reservist liabilities hampering their progress. To add insult to injury, the cost of living does not tally with earnings and the low wages that citizens earn does not help in procreation in the city state. The other factor is the predominant money culture prevalent in this city state that is causing traditional asian values to be eroded over time. And being females, and their natural instinct in the city state tend to put materialism as top priority. The foreigners who arrive, many are unwilling to settle down in the system and contribute to national security as they found that there is no real value in settling down in the city state which has no natural resources, economically unstable , politically underdeveloped and lacking in the diverse array of life found in other developed nations. Those who do, are most often, not the top talents the govt preceives them to be and often not highly educated or employed in jobs that require entry or low level skills. These foreigners have also realised that returning to their countries or use the city state as a stepping stone after a stint is the best option.
The problem here lies in the social fabric of the nation that was engineered for decades to fulfill a narrow mindset dominated purely by twisted and unnatural capitalism , meritocracy and elitism while showing a total neglect for social issues. The manouever has set the ground for an initial social problem that has since intensified and has been seen to cause more problems over time. Unlike Other developed nations have addressed these concerns with effective social planning and ethics, Singapore yet remains unwilling to take concrete efforts. Observers have noted that Singapore's social policies geared towards bringing about a secure and suitable environment for continous trade and economy, rather than as a whole solution . The system which collapses when the world economy turns its back on the city state, the social situation is iis now paying the price. Rather than implementing protectionist policies to avert this situation, the authorities expect the social landscape to wait and ride out the tide till things improve.
The other problem here lies with the city state's obsessive paranoia, stubborness,lack of foresight and outdated outlook on issues relating to national security, citizen rights and social situation tied in as whole picture. Why is there a need to maintain a conscript system when other similar countries like Taiwan have successfully abandoned the system? The system together with the other issues is causing problems in the social fabric and how long before they start to realise this issue, until the birth rate reaches zero? Does the expenditure on the conscript system producing any real output value?. No it does not, at best a superficial face value. Do we have to ask ourselves on why we are spending enormous amount of money on human assets of the conscript system that produces unhappy soldiers, who view NS duties as a hindrance and burden, get disadvantaged in employment, risk their lives, and most importantly bring about dysfunctionality in national birth and marriage rates? The conscript system is an enemy of its own existence, outputting results which is contrary to what it set out to achieve in the first place and along with it bringing added problems. And of course no problem is complete without addressing the the root causes . It seems the city state is suffering from a major problem that needs to be addressed - Problems which are made up of myriad of problems. The Singapore, popularly known as the lion city we know today, is best described as the lion with an erectile dysfunction.
Who are we to blame? Ourselves or the govt? The answer is obvious. Both.
Yes SiN city might have a rift if you have a large amount of foreigners having done NS while another half hasn't done NS. It can really suck if you are a foreigner who had to do time while nowadays foreigners get automatic PR just for studying here.
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some people like to insult people but no balls to admit.
i will mention the name, since i hate idiot with no balls.
Ah Chia.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
That's obvious isn't it?
Just step out of your house.
again touch your heartif you can be kpkb abt this, why not make a change for it?
As for NS, think back wat happened in the 1960s.. and now PRs of 2nd gen gotta serve NS
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Originally posted by sbst275:
again touch your heartif you can be kpkb abt this, why not make a change for it?
As for NS, think back wat happened in the 1960s..
NS is a must.
But how can the government level the playing field for Singaporean males who have to serve NS?
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Originally posted by charlize:
NS is a must.
But how can the government level the playing field for Singaporean males who have to serve NS?
possible to make a change, but it still must be within e reasonable meritocracy stance -
Originally posted by sbst275:
possible to make a change, but it still must be within e reasonable meritocracy stanceLike?
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Originally posted by sbst275:
again touch your heartif you can be kpkb abt this, why not make a change for it?
As for NS, think back wat happened in the 1960s.. and now PRs of 2nd gen gotta serve NS
The problem is will they have 2nd gen PRs? If citizens find it difficult to procreate due to the cost of living , what about the pRS, arent they the same too?
Its a self vicious cycle.Letting in foreigners will subject them to the same predicament as locals. Refusal to procreate.
A big loophole lies int he system. The foreigners will not give birth here, they will give birth in their country to avoid sending their children to NS.
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Originally posted by Socialist:
The problem is will they have 2nd gen PRs? If citizens find it difficult to procreate due to the cost of living , what about the pRS, arent they the same too?
Its a self vicious cycle.Letting in foreigners will subject them to the same predicament as locals. Refusal to procreate.
A big loophole lies int he system. The foreigners will not give birth here, they will give birth in their country to avoid sending their children to NS.
there are 2nd gen PRs right now. the parents come here to settle, e small kid tat moves together automatically gotta serve NS if it's a boyIn fact I'm wondering right now is the issue now of procreate or what?
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Originally posted by Socialist:
The problem is will they have 2nd gen PRs? If citizens find it difficult to procreate due to the cost of living , what about the pRS, arent they the same too?
Its a self vicious cycle.Letting in foreigners will subject them to the same predicament as locals. Refusal to procreate.
A big loophole lies int he system. The foreigners will not give birth here, they will give birth in their country to avoid sending their children to NS.
If I am not mistaken, PRs have to decide when their sons are of a certain age, to declare whether their sons will take up sg citizenship and hence serve NS later on.
I have got a lot of PR friends who are contemplating this issue and likely will not want their sons to take up sg citizenship because of the NS issue.
What's the point of sg citizenship when their sons could easily come back as PRs (like their parents) and continue to live and work in singapore without the national responsibilities?
As for new citizens and their sons, I guess they will experience the same problems that Singaporean males are facing when they realise the additional responsibilities they are carrying and the government continues to favour foreigners over their sons.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
there are 2nd gen PRs right now. the parents come here to settle, e small kid tat moves together automatically gotta serve NS if it's a boyIn fact I'm wondering right now is the issue now of procreate or what?
No, I think they have a choice if they want the son to take up sg citzenship.