seeing singapore from another perspective
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce.
I seriously doubt that logic.
I consider that PAP's bullshit propaganda.
Many english speaking states are poor, for example Philippines.
And many non english speaking states are rich.
Anyway I am not against teaching english but the execution that is rubbish.
yes, philippines is a good example.
by the way, you got another one? no limits, you can even use singapore as an example if you want.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I will repeat it slowly and very very specifically than.
Other. Examples. Of. Countries. with english official language and is poor.
anyway, with the nice example of philipines which is poor, won't it emphasis that singapore executed it nicely, since it is not poor? I think you should come up with examples of countries that become very rich to show that singapore execute it badly.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce.
I seriously doubt that logic.
I consider that PAP's bullshit propaganda.
Many english speaking states are poor, for example Philippines.
And many non english speaking states are rich.
Anyway I am not against teaching english but the execution that is rubbish.
Since you are undoubtably like to pick people's statement apart and criticize, I can do the same to yours.
I seriously doubt that logic.
Then what logic do you have? Most likely none at all.
I consider that PAP's bullshit propaganda.
Your statement is full anarchiac rhetorics that has no logical sense.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce.
I seriously doubt that logic.
I consider that PAP's bullshit propaganda.
Many english speaking states are poor, for example Philippines.
And many non english speaking states are rich.
Anyway I am not against teaching english but the execution that is rubbish.
wait ah.... what's wrong with that logic?
You doubt that a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce, then you raised that many english speaking states are poor, for example Philippines.
How does that statement refute the logic that a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce?"Allows for greater commerce" doesn't mean die die must and will have greater commerce..... You logically salah already lah
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You doubt that a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce,
Yes, it seems that I missed out that point.
"Allows".
I misinterpreted it as a state with english speaking population will by stroke of magic turn it into successfully commerical state.
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the London British drink a lot of beer during tea breaks. look what happens to them now.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
You doubt that a population that has mastered English allows for greater commerce,
Yes, it seems that I missed out that point.
"Allows".
I misinterpreted it as a state with english speaking population will by stroke of magic turn it into successfully commerical state.
Hey 4 eye chicken Chia, was that the whole sentence I typed in? Nah beh, purposely miss out on the part on the lingua franca and geographical advantage. Chao cheebye, I must word every fucking sentence in local vulgarity so you can landu understand it?
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"Being in the developed city, I hope singaporean could be more open minded, and accepted different mind, most of singaporean I encountered, are cynic, and touchy, many people even when they say sorry, they don’t mean it, just looks like they are banged by reality, suffer bad relationship, raised up in a bad family. Being nice is an art, when you have shit in your heart, you saw everything look like shit..."
What an irony, TS should look at himself first. BTW how long is your cock?
Keep a right mentality, I advice you
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Originally posted by constantinePa:
teaching in english is the last thing PAP want to do, because the multi racial population here, you have to teach in english, but i don't think it's a good thing, even the poorest people is proud about who they are, they don't have to imitate others,
How about promote english as an official language worldwide, since it's an international language, no , no one would do that, they cannot despise their own culture, and embrace a foriegn language.
Learning english, and speaking english, you could never be better than american or british, and you are following their foot step. It only can make US and UK think you are protectorate.
So better no to raise it as an contribution for wat PAP have done
why is it learning english means we're following in american or british footsteps to you? are you suggesting we do it like malaysia did? teach in bahasa malaysia? even the chinese? teach the malays here lessons in chinese? what do you think is a better way other then a common language? no one else did it because it wasn't necessary.
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Originally posted by constantinePa:
hey man, i think it's irrelavent even if lee is baba, you need to see which culture dominate his mind, then judge he is chinese or westerner, or western influenced chinese, anyway, baba, or chinese is a name, you need to see what he is promoting,i would say lee kuan yew is a man who looks like chinese, but inate he is westerner, sorry, i accidentally change his origin. i would say i cannot prove he is purely chinese in his ancestor, maybe some of his ancient family member have inter racial marriage with other race, malay perhaps. But it didnot change his tough position in singapore political arena
have you ever seen a man who succeeded in the political arena while battling their way through and not had a need to take a tough position? is this something you attribute to ancestry?
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Don't give me that crap. Learning English is one thing. Stop using your own dialet/language is another. Baba Siao is confused because he is Chap Cheng. He wants everyone to be confused about their own identity like him.
Even the Malaysian government did not go so far as to stop broadcasts of HK dramas in cantonese and mainland dramas in Mandarin.
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Originally posted by constantinePa:
I have been in this forum for a while, sometimes I am pissed by those people who is close minded, not willing to accept different opinion. There are nice people in Singapore, but unfortunately I did not meet many, so this post is composed just vent my resentment and unhappiness, and I am not mocking some people in particular but Singaporean in general, If you are not happy with the title, and content of the post, please ignore it, like that since when Singapore is importing a lot foreigner, and more and more of different voice will appear, that’s the pitfall of that policy, hope you can understand, and please don’t veto my account, anyway, we can see, whether Singapore is open or not here.
Seeing singapore from another perspective
To be honest , I didn’t develope any affection in the several years I live in singapore, but rather some resentment, which I will discuss later, see whether, the reason is because of my fault, or singapore is really not so perfect place as many perceived.
When you need to know someone, you need to someone else, and make a comparision, singapore is clean, safe organised, as in the ads which attract tourist and student.
But besides which, singapore also have many common bad thing like many other developed cities.
I cited some example, singapore suicide rate is as high as japan, singapore homosexual rate is as high as in US, singapore divorce rate is as high as in US, singapore sexual satifaction rate is as high………, no I would say that,I think singapore sex satifaction rate is not as high as other country, I think singapore guys and girl didn’t enjoy satifactory sex, see, you are developed than african country, but in terms of sex, singapore is less developed than them, just see how long is the penis of black people. Most of asian will bow to them, so though many singaporean have more fortune than less developed country, but in terms of sex, or family tie, family relationship, singaporean should realy reexamine what happen to the socalled developed city, or first class, is the first class so first class?
Franch should be proud of their romance, british should be proud of the large empire they ever build, American should be proud of the super power them own, even iraq egypt should be proud of the tradition they have, jewish say they are blessed and chosen by god. But singapore, I don’t know what they can be proud of, may the cleaness on the street, which is as clean as in hospital.
Singapore have excellent people, like lee kuan yeo, and many business man, but many people comdemn lee kuan yeo, I think I can understand, because lee kuan yeo’s government is big governemtn, they do many thing good to people, but they are thinking in the way, that they have the right to decide thing for citizen, like raise the tax for alchol and cigar, which two, is the most important item discovered, to bring enjoyment to people, and relief pressure,
So in the stressfull society like in singapore, I don’t understand why, government cannot allow people to indulge themselves in drink couples of beer, and smoke some cigarret.
And they propose some idea like joggin to replace them, smoking and achohol is about to maximise your happiness in an allowed extend, which like a person, earn 2000, which is an average salary in sinagpore, imagine if the cigarette price, is not 10 dollar, instead, it’s 2 dollar, which is the price in other country, or the beer is not 6 dollar, but 1 dollar, do you feel much relief in consuming the commodity?
Smoking doesnot hinder your health to that extend as publicised, as long, as you don’t chain smoking often , and do regular exercise, most important be happy,
Then you will be just like the rest of guys, who smoke the whole life, but keep in a good shape.
Being in the developed city, I hope singaporean could be more open minded, and accepted different mind, most of singaporean I encountered, are cynic, and touchy, many people even when they say sorry, they don’t mean it, just looks like they are banged by reality, suffer bad relationship, raised up in a bad family. Being nice is an art, when you have shit in your heart, you saw everything look like shit,
Keep a right mentality, I advice you
To be honest, singapore doesnot have a rich culture, many singaporean is short sighted as well,
They have seldom knowledge about literature ,art, and history, one of the singapore minister said history is burdon, but I say is history make who you are. Singapore don’t have many culture to bond citizen, just like chinese in singapore, their culture is from the fact , they are chinese, just like the cantonese in singapore is just like cantonese in china, beside, singaporean cantonese speak english, I don’t know what’s their difference.
One policy applied by singapore government underhandedly, is fool people, fool people is just an astonishing title, but in nature , they are really dcing this,
PAP, knowing that knowledge make people smart, they educate people with engineering, saying engineering is good, engineering is good in the way of make a stable profitable career, but most of engineer are timid, did not developed independent thinking, easily being persvaded and manipulated. I once heard from friend, in school they don’t teach history or philosophy, they education system in singapore are pragmatic. And they are now wandering why singapore don’t developed enteurpreneur spirit, of course, if a person is not cultured with idea about life, and confidence about what he do, how he can set up a career and take the risk by themselves.
Singapore provide good manager, but not good founder, there are not many sound local brand, I only know creative, ST, and the coffee maker supermix,
I think singapore is overwhelmed by the good infrasture, the money they have, the rank in the world by other agency.
But to be honest, singapore don’t have many space to develop, singapore major in export and import, when the rest of country is opening up, because the heritage they have, they will catching up, the new power house is in Asia, sooner or later, singapore will feel the heat of the pressure from his competitor.
Today, I have said enough, if some day else I feel have to add something, I will do that,
And at last, I will use a word used by many US people
Peace dude.
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chinese have been practise ancestor worship for a long time, i am sure whether what you said is true, it sounds like conspiracy theory, but i think PAP have successfully isolate singapore from china, from china's influence,
Long time ago chinese seek shelter in Nanyang, which is singapura in chinese, because the political turbulence, but no one consider nanyang as their home, sooner or later they want to get back to china, and Nanyang at that time is equivalent to a horrible place, rumoured among chinese,
many prostitute have been traffic to nanyang , and they fear so much of going to nanyang, singaporean chinese at that time is similar to a diaspora jewish during world war, and jews in world promtly go back to Israel when the country of israel is formally established.
and i am not familar with the history, during which singapore's economy grow tremendously. and PAP successfully establish a so called singapore spirit, which is similar to hongkong spirit, means working hard, and striving for success,
and the new generation is born in singapore, who enjoy first class infrastructure, and stable political enviorment, and after the successfully education and building of singpapore identity, the new generation consider them to be singaporean for the first time, and singaporean chinese become a name of different being with china chinese.
but although offending, but i would say, the first generation of chinese come to singapore are mostly not educated people. THey may not be familiar with the classical chiense culture, which is the reason they don't develope firm bond with china,
and now after the english is being accepted as official language, no one willing to read difficult chinese classics, and the only tie between singaporean chinese and china is blocked, that's the reason why singaporean chinese despise china chinese, although speaking same language, and looks the same.
Singapore have made a miracle, after British formly withdraw from singpapore, they predict singapore will not survive without the aid from british side.But singapore successfully, building it's economy for post colony period, and successfully establish,"singapore" brand ,in world market in terms of entre port economy,
now singapore have been on the right track of development, but seems the development of economy never satisfy the appetite of singaporean, and the more and more stressful life, triggered by globalisation, and shortage in local market itself, to build up a self sufficient economy.
after economic booming, steady peiord of development, singaporean feel that they are as good as US ,Uk, and proud of it's singapore identity. After the long time to struggle for survival, singaporean become more and more crave to become first class in every aspect, the PAP government already lagging behind to fulfill the need of singaporean's appetite for more transparent and democratic government. And the autocratic government model already become outdated to maintain a efficient and acceptable governance, just like a script in movie, they are looking for something more extraordinary.
being exposed to more more about western life, especially the life in europe, where the human right, is greatly respected, where they have longer maternity leave, and less time in working, singaporean are not satisfied to be lecture by PAP, what is the next step, after the booming time, people realise that there are something more extraordinary, which is democracy, and realise that for so long time, they have been brainwashed, and behave like a working maching.
The shift from making survival concern to have more quality government and life in education, medical, insurance, and social welfare, mark a great breakthrough from post colony to new singapore identity.
And this is the driving force, of calling for a political reform, we not only need money, and respect at the same time, it's the end of singapore's modernisation and westernisation, and the beginning , singapore creation.
i hail for what singapore have achieved, but after all this , we need to think what is the next step, going western way, or going your own way. SIngapore need democracy, or authoritarian with singapore characristics.
this question is what singapore will face during, next10 to 20 years.
And the dead of old singapore and the born of new singapore will prove whether, singaporean is capable of facing the new era of economy, which is the ending of one polarisation to multi polarisation, and the decline of old world order, the rise of new world order, which, the asia and asia market will become a big role in world economy.
this the question, singapore need to provide answer for , and we will witness, whether singapore will uplift itself from first class hardware, to first class "software", from hard power to soft power. it's time to take break, and think what is the next step for singapore.
if this is usually how you go about sharing your views in this forum,wouldn't it be a surprise people were to actually accept your different opinion? should it even be a surprise you don't meet kind singaporeans?
peace dude?<<== first a load of crap then you say peace dude? do you even have a brain?
smoking is acceptable? to you maybe but for a non smoker i am firmly against smoking. who in the world other then a smoker would actually think smoking is ok? do you know how a non smoker feels when they are forced to share a space with a smoker and have to breath in the smoke? has that thought ever registered in your brain?
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
yeah im sure the world was very willing to come here, set up shop/do business in hokkien/teochew/cantonese/malay/tamil
You got the cheap wages like China I don't see why not. Anyway I am not against teaching english. It is the execution that is the problem.Right, no one is against the teaching and learning of English. It is the social engineering, the systematic destruction of culture by stopping, for example, broadcasts in cantonese, Hong Kong dramas.
It is the social engineering like what Hitler did. It was supposed to be for the good of Singaporeans, the country and the economy and now we find out that it was to promote the self interests of a cursed despot, his family and his cronies.
The cronyism and nepotism in turn destroying the economy and I am just watching and laughing at their antics and at Silliporeans for supporting a cursed despot with a zombie wife, and a son suffering from cancer of the anus.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Don't give me that crap. Learning English is one thing. Stop using your own dialet/language is another. Baba Siao is confused because he is Chap Cheng. He wants everyone to be confused about their own identity like him.
Even the Malaysian government did not go so far as to stop broadcasts of HK dramas in cantonese and mainland dramas in Mandarin.
dialect has to be passed on by teaching the next generation, you don't get that from the govt. dialects are usually spoken within the local community. and yes the singapore govt didn't encourage dialects but if your own parents don't teach your own dialects is that actually the govt's fault?
if you're brought up by your parents you naturally speak their language be it english or dialect. mine choose to bring us up in mandarin despite being cantonese and i can only speak hokkien. but my parents never thought much about it much less blame your "Baba Siao".
they just felt that they didn't bring us up in a cantonese speaking enviroment thats all.
its not like hk dramas in cantonese would help me in my situation when i'm not going to use the dialect at all.
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
dialect has to be passed on by teaching the next generation, you don't get that from the govt. dialects are usually spoken within the local community. and yes the singapore govt didn't encourage dialects but if your own parents don't teach your own dialects is that actually the govt's fault?
if you're brought up by your parents you naturally speak their language be it english or dialect. mine choose to bring us up in mandarin despite being cantonese and i can only speak hokkien. but my parents never thought much about it much less blame your "Baba Siao".
they just felt that they didn't bring us up in a cantonese speaking enviroment thats all.
its not like hk dramas in cantonese would help me in my situation when i'm not going to use the dialect at all.
Didn't encourage or systematically tried to eliminate it by for example, stopping the broadcasts of TV dramas and programs in dialect?
Please get your facts right.
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
why is it learning english means we're following in american or british footsteps to you? are you suggesting we do it like malaysia did? teach in bahasa malaysia? even the chinese? teach the malays here lessons in chinese? what do you think is a better way other then a common language? no one else did it because it wasn't necessary.
if we teach in malay, then he will say we are following malaysia or indonesia
if use mandarin, he will say we are following china, hong kong, or taiwan
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It is not the language that matters, my dear Uncle Andrew. It is what you do with the language that is critical.
In the middle ages, due to the advancement of science and philosophy, England, a small tiny little island could ruled the world and conquered others whom had no such advances.
If it had been the other way around, perhaps england would have been conquered by India and speaking hindu now?
But the fact was that conqueror england spoke english and thus in order to earn a living or study their conquerors to regain back their lands, they had to speak english. It would have been the same if Spain were the conquerors and we would be speaking spanish today instead.
US build its nation using english as most of its settlers were from england then and had been the lingo it used. Otherwise, rest assured, the yankees would gladly had thrown out english lingo and use their own lingo, but they had no other lingo than english for administration and commerce.
For singaporeans to speak english is only a necessity, for commerce communication and to be better than our inhumane conquerors, forced to give up colonnisation after realizing asians are equal human and not animals after being kicked by the japs and forced by Roosevelt for aid to save their homeland.
To speak in any other lingo would only be for endearments, as a sense of cultural belonging to an ethnic group to partake in its heritage, a heritage of a society that lost its right to survive when it was subjugated and perhaps replaced by an allegience to a better and newly created society - such as cantonese from Kwangtung being replaced with Mandarin for commerce and administration.
Utimately - a lingo is ONLY for communication with another, as meant by our blabbering and finger jabbing cavemen ancestors. In time, it became xenophobic and a cause for exclusivity and supremacy, which we, a brave new generation, spared the excesses of foolish and senseless wars, MUST avoid.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
It is not the language that matters, my dear Uncle Andrew. It is what you do with the language that is critical.
In the middle ages, due to the advancement of science and philosophy, England, a small tiny little island could ruled the world and conquered others whom had no such advances.
If it had been the other way around, perhaps england would have been conquered by India and speaking hindu now?
But the fact was that conqueror england spoke english and thus in order to earn a living or study their conquerors to regain back their lands, they had to speak english. It would have been the same if Spain were the conquerors and we would be speaking spanish today instead.
US build its nation using english as most of its settlers were from england then and had been the lingo it used. Otherwise, rest assured, the yankees would gladly had thrown out english lingo and use their own lingo, but they had no other lingo than english for administration and commerce.
For singaporeans to speak english is only a necessity, for commerce communication and to be better than our inhumane conquerors, forced to give up colonnisation after realizing asians are equal human and not animals after being kicked by the japs and forced by Roosevelt for aid to save their homeland.
To speak in any other lingo would only be for endearments, as a sense of cultural belonging to an ethnic group to partake in its heritage, a heritage of a society that lost its right to survive when it was subjugated and perhaps replaced by an allegience to a better and newly created society - such as cantonese from Kwangtung being replaced with Mandarin for commerce and administration.
Utimately - a lingo is ONLY for communication with another, as meant by our blabbering and finger jabbing cavemen ancestors. In time, it became xenophobic and a cause for exclusivity and supremacy, which we, a brave new generation, spared the excesses of foolish and senseless wars, MUST avoid.
How many times must people repeat something before it gets nto your head?
It is one thing to "promote" a language for whatever reasons, be it commerce or communication.
It is another to actively kill off dialects by say, banning dramas in dialects.
It is another "social engineering" attempt by the cursed despot. He is cursed as everyone can see, with a zombie wife and a son with cancer of the anus and so on and so forth... he is not god.
In order to ram his social engineering onto the people, he persecutes activists and opposition so that he can do as he pleases and we can see it is to promote his relatives, cronies and dogs; to take as much public money as he pleases.
The cronyism and nepotism are killing off the country's economy and I am here watching and laughing at Silliporeans and the running dogs that supported cursed people.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
How many times must people repeat something before it gets nto your head?
It is one thing to "promote" a language for whatever reasons, be it commerce or communication.
It is another to actively kill off dialects by say, banning dramas in dialects.
It is another "social engineering" attempt by the cursed despot. He is cursed as everyone can see, with a zombie wife and a son with cancer of the anus and so on and so forth... he is not god.
In order to ram his social engineering onto the people, he persecutes activists and opposition so that he can do as he pleases and we can see it is to promote his relatives, cronies and dogs; to take as much public money as he pleases.
The cronyism and nepotism are killing off the country's economy and I am here watching and laughing at Silliporeans and the running dogs that supported cursed people.
Uncle, pardon me gal, but your post is alway like what most old peoples said, LPPL. I was thinking you can enlight us on social enginneering so that i can learn more, print and submit to my professor, but then, with anus, ass, dogs, licking, cronyism, i think i end up getting a big scolding with my prof, please learn, post with some substances lah.
Angel Of God
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
dialect has to be passed on by teaching the next generation, you don't get that from the govt. dialects are usually spoken within the local community. and yes the singapore govt didn't encourage dialects but if your own parents don't teach your own dialects is that actually the govt's fault?
if you're brought up by your parents you naturally speak their language be it english or dialect. mine choose to bring us up in mandarin despite being cantonese and i can only speak hokkien. but my parents never thought much about it much less blame your "Baba Siao".
they just felt that they didn't bring us up in a cantonese speaking enviroment thats all.
its not like hk dramas in cantonese would help me in my situation when i'm not going to use the dialect at all.
Well, like it or not, without LKY or that Baba and his babe, we might be posting in English or mandarin now. So, dun always take the wrong points, it is true the every decision does create opposition effect, but if the good outweight the bad more, why not? it is a good decision. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Uncle, pardon me gal, but your post is alway like what most old peoples said, LPPL. I was thinking you can enlight us on social enginneering so that i can learn more, print and submit to my professor, but then, with anus, ass, dogs, licking, cronyism, i think i end up getting a big scolding with my prof, please learn, post with some substances lah.
Angel Of God
cum I mark your paper or should I just put a stain there as my signature. -
How many times must people repeat something before it gets nto your head?
It is one thing to "promote" a language for whatever reasons, be it commerce or communication.
It is another to actively kill off dialects by say, banning dramas in dialects.
Not bad, AndrewPKYap, you are the only one who grasped what I am saying.
The rest either pretend to act blur due to hardcore pro-PAP or totally brainwashed by PAP propaganda.
Not bad.
I feel sad that PAP created this bullshit mentality in people and kill off their identity.
That is why I will forever be opposed to those anglo dogs.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
How many times must people repeat something before it gets nto your head?
It is one thing to "promote" a language for whatever reasons, be it commerce or communication.
It is another to actively kill off dialects by say, banning dramas in dialects.
Not bad, AndrewPKYap, you are the only one who grasped what I am saying.
The rest either pretend to act blur or totally brainwashed by PAP propaganda.
Not bad.
I feel sad that PAP created this bullshit mentality in people and kill off their identity.
That is why I will forever be opposed to those anglo dogs.
Uncle, Whether u oppose or not, they are the ruling party, by hook or by crook, you have to admit that they get the most vote and are under consitution of election, the ruling party, even 51% is still the ruling party. Of course there are other votes and also other who dun agree that should be the one ruling, but most hv to submit to it as the most of their other relatives, friends and fellow citizens voted the PAP, they respected that votes by them.So, in a nutshell, even if you dun like PAP, you hv to respect Singaporeans decision and vote. Tho i may be eligible to vote this coming election, i might vote opposition, but if PAP wins, i pay my respect to my fellow citizens and agree defeat in the most charming lady aspect. It should be something like when you lost, you start to criticise and harbour a non satisfactory mindset, dun look at PAP, look at the Singaporeans who voted them, do you respect them.
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The elections are not fair.
PAP monopolised the mainstream media to spread propaganda, opposition censored.
Campaign period only a few days for opposition to hold rallies, while for 5 years PAP daily spread their bullshit propaganda to brainwash.