gone liao.
Heng Ar!!! I said China building "Kra Isthmus Canal" (1st March 2009) to bypass Singapore and not Myanmese pipelines. Otherwise everytime I say something sway about this despot run country and it comes to pass shortly after, it would be scary.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
If they want to, with their experience in creating the "Three Gorges Dam" they can build the "Kra Isthmus Canal"... and with the despots siphoning money and gambling away the reserves.... whatever Singaporeans do will be too little too late, for being so apatehtic when the despots persecute dissidents and opposition, now.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Heng Ar!!! I said China building "Kra Isthmus Canal" (1st March 2009) to bypass Singapore and not Myanmese pipelines. Otherwise everytime I say something sway about this despot run country and it comes to pass shortly after, it would be scary.
Does anyone know the average supply volume of such a pipeline? I am skeptical of the volume that can be supplied in this manner.
Anyway, the pipe ends at Kunming, which means its more likely to supply the Southwest Area. As it is relatively in-efficient to transport fuel from that area into the eastern coastal cities, I would suspect that this is more of a backup plan for China rather than to seriously solely depend on it. Can you imagine if the entire China or most of China's developing cities depends on a 2000km pipeline and then suddenly someone sarbotage or there is a natural disaster that damages the pipeline? The more likely event is that China will diverse a portion of its energy transport to the pipeline, but unlikely to completely foresake SIngapore.
With regards to the Kras Isthmus Canal, I have confirmation from a Thai official that that is so not going to happen in the near future.
This move to bypass the Straits, I suspect is a consequence of China's experience over the Gulf of Aden. The Straits of Malacca and the Gulf of Aden are one of the top few piracy hotspots. Thanks to piracy, China's energy supply comes under threat. That is not exactly something that's healthy for its' energy hungry economy.
Because China has yet to develop a capability to project power out beyond S.E.A, it will seek to find ways to stabilize its energy supply. Hence, a Myanmar-China oil pipeline doesn't surprise me.
Its usefulness in war, I'm slightly skeptical. Afterall, pipelines aren't indestructible. A navy(ie. USN) that's capable of blockading China's oil supply, would probably have capabilities quietly knock out the pipelines as well.
IMO, its next move would be to acquire some kind of basing rights for the PLAAN to operate beyond South East Asia, from Myanmar.
Originally posted by Shotgun:This move to bypass the Straits, I suspect is a consequence of China's experience over the Gulf of Aden. The Straits of Malacca and the Gulf of Aden are one of the top few piracy hotspots. Thanks to piracy, China's energy supply comes under threat. That is not exactly something that's healthy for its' energy hungry economy.
Because China has yet to develop a capability to project power out beyond S.E.A, it will seek to find ways to stabilize its energy supply. Hence, a Myanmar-China oil pipeline doesn't surprise me.
Its usefulness in war, I'm slightly skeptical. Afterall, pipelines aren't indestructible. A navy(ie. USN) that's capable of blockading China's oil supply, would probably have capabilities quietly knock out the pipelines as well.
IMO, its next move would be to acquire some kind of basing rights for the PLAAN to operate beyond South East Asia, from Myanmar.
The piracy issue is indeed a concern to them, but the literatures available suggest that the Chinese are more worried about the Straits of Malacca as a choke point that US can leverage on.
I agree about its limited usefulness in times of conflict too, even if the pipeline is well protected, the tankers still have to pass by the Indian Ocean, which is not where the Chinese are exactly comfortable too.
There are already talks and some plans about PLAN operating from Myanmar and Pakistan, but I think that will just agitate the Indians.
Originally posted by wisefool83:Does anyone know the average supply volume of such a pipeline? I am skeptical of the volume that can be supplied in this manner.
Anyway, the pipe ends at Kunming, which means its more likely to supply the Southwest Area. As it is relatively in-efficient to transport fuel from that area into the eastern coastal cities, I would suspect that this is more of a backup plan for China rather than to seriously solely depend on it. Can you imagine if the entire China or most of China's developing cities depends on a 2000km pipeline and then suddenly someone sarbotage or there is a natural disaster that damages the pipeline? The more likely event is that China will diverse a portion of its energy transport to the pipeline, but unlikely to completely foresake SIngapore.
With regards to the Kras Isthmus Canal, I have confirmation from a Thai official that that is so not going to happen in the near future.
The reason they built in in Myanmar is because the Military Dictators there will shoot to kill anyone that tries to mess with the pipeline. They might even let the PLA to guard it.
While it will not affect Singapore in the near future it definitely will in the long run with knock on/domino effects.
How much it will affect Singapore is anyone's guess but the fact that the propaganda press chooses to remain silent on this issue that affects Singapore so fundamentally tells you that even the Singapore despots are scared!!!!
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
The reason they built in in Myanmar is because the Military Dictators there will shoot to kill anyone that tries to mess with the pipeline. They might even let the PLA to guard it.
While it will not affect Singapore in the near future it definitely will in the long run with knock on/domino effects.
How much it will affect Singapore is anyone's guess but the fact that the propaganda press chooses to remain silent on this issue that affects Singapore so fundamentally tells you that even the Singapore despots are scared!!!!
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_304557.html
It was already out since last november.... I can understand why you choose not to read Singapore's newspaper...but if you don't read it, how do you know what they don't report?
Touche. =)
Originally posted by wisefool83:How much it will affect Singapore is anyone's guess but the fact that the propaganda press chooses to remain silent on this issue that affects Singapore so fundamentally tells you that even the Singapore despots are scared!!!!
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_304557.html
It was already out since last november.... I can understand why you choose not to read Singapore's newspaper...but if you don't read it, how do you know what they don't report?
That was an old report (Nov 20, 2008) that also said, and I quote:
"But some analysts doubt the Myanmar project will take off, as the investment is so huge that it may be a better option to continue depending on the Malacca Strait."
Now that it is confirmed, total silence!!!!!
Damned Propaganda Press!!!!!! Damned Despots!!!
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
That was an old report (Nov 20, 2008) that also said, and I quote:
"But some analysts doubt the Myanmar project will take off, as the investment is so huge that it may be a better option to continue depending on the Malacca Strait."
Now that it is confirmed, total silence!!!!!
Damned Propaganda Press!!!!!! Damned Despots!!!
If its that particular quote that you mind, you can always read the Channelnewsasia version
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/390798/1/.html
Still old, but if one just read the headlines (which most people do), there really isn't much of a difference in terms of the impression that one will get. Essentially, China will build a pipeline from Myanmar to Yunnan.
Interestingly, as I trace the news, it appears that the news first got out of India, then somebody in HK picked it up and translated it into Chinese and then the Chinese media only reported on this today. So even if the folks at SPH find this thing they already reported way back in Nov worth reporting, its a bit too early to jump the gun and says that the "Propaganda Press" and "Damned Despots" are too "scared...woooo....." to tell us about it.
And the fact that Chinese Media had to pick up the news from HK source which translated from an Indian source, suggest that even the Chinese govt doesn't find it very newsworthly.
Oh, and CNA also has a forum which is discussing the very same topic. Kinda sucky for a propaganda press to allow its forum to discuss a topic which it is "too scared" to report, isn't it? :D
So will you stop picking bones out of shells for once?
Hrm..what about refining facilities?
From what i know, building the pipeline is the easy part but having the facilities to convert the crude oil into usable components is the more complex and difficult task isn't it ? Not to mention transporting the fuel to their coastal cities that will need it far more.
So while i can see the pipeline being useful to guard against a US blockade in the Malacca Straits it's still going to be cheaper and more convenient to refine the oil in Singapore and directly transport the refined fuel to their more fuel hungry cities along the coast ?
Originally posted by Shotgun:This move to bypass the Straits, I suspect is a consequence of China's experience over the Gulf of Aden. The Straits of Malacca and the Gulf of Aden are one of the top few piracy hotspots. Thanks to piracy, China's energy supply comes under threat. That is not exactly something that's healthy for its' energy hungry economy.
Because China has yet to develop a capability to project power out beyond S.E.A, it will seek to find ways to stabilize its energy supply. Hence, a Myanmar-China oil pipeline doesn't surprise me.
Its usefulness in war, I'm slightly skeptical. Afterall, pipelines aren't indestructible. A navy(ie. USN) that's capable of blockading China's oil supply, would probably have capabilities quietly knock out the pipelines as well.
IMO, its next move would be to acquire some kind of basing rights for the PLAAN to operate beyond South East Asia, from Myanmar.
‘Chinese Naval Base on Myanmar’s Great Coco Island’ does exist and is located very close to the Indian Naval Base and Airstrip on the Indian Andaman Islands in the north eastern sector of the Indian Ocea that is off the coast of Bangladesh.
The pipelines can be buried underground like the strategic water pipelines that cuts the Island of Singapore.
Unlike the purposefully well maintained ground above the buried water pipes that provide a clue to its location, the Chinese-Myanmar oil pipeline can be camouflaged by allowing undergrowth to grow. Its route will need to be picked up during the construction stage - by any interested parties - if it should ever be need to be targetted in any future conflict with China.
However, if the oil pipeline is to transport thick crude oil, it will require a substantial numbers and size of pumping stations to keep the thick and heavy oil flowing over the mountainous route from the Myanmese coast to reach Kunmin in China.
During WW-2 - the Chinese Resistance Force battling the Japanese Military was resupplied by an overland route to Kunmin too.
Besides the Myanmar access, China has an alternative land route.
The Sino-Pakistan co-operation also led Pakistan to allow a Chinese presence in Gwadar to keep track of US naval ships in the Gulf.
This also allow China to use Gwadar for a land route access to West Asia in the event of Malacca Straits being denied to them.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:Hrm..what about refining facilities?
From what i know, building the pipeline is the easy part but having the facilities to convert the crude oil into usable components is the more complex and difficult task isn't it ? Not to mention transporting the fuel to their coastal cities that will need it far more.
So while i can see the pipeline being useful to guard against a US blockade in the Malacca Straits it's still going to be cheaper and more convenient to refine the oil in Singapore and directly transport the refined fuel to their more fuel hungry cities along the coast ?
Unfortunately,Singapore oil refining facilities are designed to refined the sweet crude with low sulphur content that comes out from the Middle-east, and is not necessarily the cheapest place to process crude as there are other locations with the capabilities and capacities that Singapore may not have.
From a quick review of - ‘A study of China’s independent refinery sector’ - it showed that China has more then 100 independent refineries located all over China, and this list does not include the newer larger refineries on the western hinterland of China, nor the larger refineries based in north-eastern China.
China has also invested heavily in a refining facility in Sudan.
Originally posted by wisefool83:If its that particular quote that you mind, you can always read the Channelnewsasia version
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/390798/1/.html
Still old, but if one just read the headlines (which most people do), there really isn't much of a difference in terms of the impression that one will get. Essentially, China will build a pipeline from Myanmar to Yunnan.
Interestingly, as I trace the news, it appears that the news first got out of India, then somebody in HK picked it up and translated it into Chinese and then the Chinese media only reported on this today. So even if the folks at SPH find this thing they already reported way back in Nov worth reporting, its a bit too early to jump the gun and says that the "Propaganda Press" and "Damned Despots" are too "scared...woooo....." to tell us about it.
And the fact that Chinese Media had to pick up the news from HK source which translated from an Indian source, suggest that even the Chinese govt doesn't find it very newsworthly.
Oh, and CNA also has a forum which is discussing the very same topic. Kinda sucky for a propaganda press to allow its forum to discuss a topic which it is "too scared" to report, isn't it? :D
So will you stop picking bones out of shells for once?
It is not "newsworthly" to China. Why should it be? It is not "newsworthly" to Singapore?
The only reason that you see discussions in forums is that they cannot control it. There is a limited audience online.
CNA is "online" and ST is widely distributed.
Therefore to say:
"Damned Propaganda Press!!!!!! Damned Despots!!!" is fully justified.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
It is not "newsworthly" to China. Why should it be? It is not "newsworthly" to Singapore?
The only reason that you see discussions in forums is that they cannot control it. There is a limited audience online.
CNA is "online" and ST is widely distributed.
Therefore to say:
"Damned Propaganda Press!!!!!! Damned Despots!!!" is fully justified.
Again, I can't follow the logic of your argument here. But anyway, I'm not saying that Sg's mainstream media is not propagandic in nature, but in this particular case, it is pretty obvious that they are not suppressing the news. Sure they didn't like splash it across the front page along with words like "We Are Doom!!!", but allowing news that you "fear" all over the internet is not exactly how a propagandic press works. (Again, not saying that the press is not propagandic, but merely that this piece of news is not a big thing to them.)
The thing is, if you keep sloting "Damned Propanganda Press", "Damned Despots", "Honorable blar blar blar" all over the forum at every single opportunity (irregardless of whether it is justified or not), it is going to make people around here disagreeing the PAP govt on real issues look like your fellow retards. Which kind of contribute to the reason why some folks out there thinks local opposition and dissidents are just a bunch of nuts.