Israeli soldiers admit to deliberate killing of Gaza civilia
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Israeli soldiers admit to deliberate killing of Gaza civilians
FromMarch 20, 2009The Israeli army has been forced to open an investigation into the conduct of its troops in Gaza after damning testimony from its own front line soldiers revealed the killing of civilians and rules of engagement so lax that one combatant said that they amounted on occasion to “cold-blooded murder”.
The revelations, compiled by the head of an Israel military academy who declared that he was “shocked” at the findings, come as international rights groups are calling for independent inquiries into the conduct of both sides in the three-week Israeli offensive against Palestinian Islamists.
The soldiers’ testimonies include accounts of an unarmed old woman being shot at a distance of 100 yards, a woman and her two children being killed after Israeli soldiers ordered them from their house into the line of fire of a sniper and soldiers clearing houses by shooting anyone they encountered on sight.
“That’s the beauty of Gaza. You see a man walking, he doesn’t have to have a weapon, and you can shoot him,” one soldier told Danny Zamir, the head of the Rabin pre-military academy, who asked him why a company commander ordered an elderly woman to be shot.
"I gathered the graduate students of the course who fought in Gaza, to hear their impressions from the fighting. I wasn't prepared for any of the stuff I heard there. I was shocked,” Mr Zamir said. “I think that the writing was on the wall, but we just didn't want to see it, we didn't want to face it."
One non-commissioned officer told Mr Zamir, himself a deputy battalion commander in the reserves, that the army “fired a lot of rounds and killed a lot of people in order for us not to be injured or shot at.
"When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up storey by storey… I call that murder. Each storey, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself – how is this reasonable?"
The same unnamed NCO said that his commanding officer ordered soldiers on to a rooftop to shoot an old woman crossing a main street during the fighting, which a Palestinian rights groups said left 1,434 people dead, 960 of them civilians.
"I don't know whether she was suspicious, not suspicious, I don't know her story,” the NCO said. “I do know that my officer sent people to the roof in order to take her out… It was cold-blooded murder."
Another NCO recounted a military blunder that led to a mother and her two children being shot dead by an Israeli sniper. "We had taken over the house… and the family was released and told to go right. A mother and two children got confused and went left… The sniper on the roof wasn't told that this was okay and that he shouldn't shoot… you can say he just did what he was told… he was told not to let anyone approach the left flank and he shot at them.
"I don't know whether he first shot at their feet or not, but he killed them," the soldier said.
The soldiers’ accounts were submitted anonymously at a meeting at the academy around a month ago. The Israel army said that it had started an investigation, but that this was the first time it had heard such testimony, despite having debriefed troops itself.
Breaking The Silence, an organisation of former soldiers who gather witness accounts from troops in the Palestinian territories, said that its own investigation into Operation Cast Lead, as the war was known in Israel, had revealed a similar picture of the fighting.
“It’s definitely in line with what we are hearing,” said one of the researchers.
Another disturbing element reported by the soldiers was the role of military rabbis in distributing booklets that framed the fighting as a religious war. “All these articles had a clear message: we are the Jewish people, we have come to the land by miraculous means, and now we have to fight to remove the Gentiles who are getting in our way and preventing us from occupying the Holy Land… a great many soldiers had a feeling throughout this operation of a religious war,” said one soldier.
There were also accounts of soldiers being ordered to throw all the furniture out of Palestinians’ homes as they were taken over.
“We simply threw everything out the windows to make room and order. The entire contents of the house flew out the windows: refrigerator, plates, furniture. The order was to remove the entire contents of the house.”
The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights released the names of 1,417 Gazans that it says were killed in the war, saying that 926 were civilians. The Israeli Government contends that most of those killed were combatants or legitimate targets.
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An old woman crossing the street during the fighting? That's peculiar !
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It is rather common in war zone... sure got some black sheeps in the midst...
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And even with those cold blooded preventive outrage their performance in the gaza war was only mediocre........I'm starting to think Israeli soldiers as sheeps. meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.
Let quote somebody that described the Israel conduct in the Gazan War: Jews unplugged
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
It is rather common in war zone... sure got some black sheeps in the midst...
You mean this?
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It's simple, if the Palestinians does not want their children and woman shot, then stop using them as human shield and suicide bombers. When you're at war and in enemy's territory, would you not shoot anyone suspicious (i.e. like a woman walking in the street when there is a curfew; whom may be carry bombs on her that could blow you and your soldiers into bits?) That's the reality of war.
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Israel's Dirty Secrets in Gaza
Army veterans reveal how they gunned down innocent Palestinian families and destroyed homes and farmshttp://informationclearinghouse.info/article22254.htm
UN Envoy: Gaza Op Seems to be War Crime of Greatest Magnitude
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22253.htm
That’s the reality of war.
No, that's a war crime.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Israel's Dirty Secrets in Gaza
Army veterans reveal how they gunned down innocent Palestinian families and destroyed homes and farmshttp://informationclearinghouse.info/article22254.htm
UN Envoy: Gaza Op Seems to be War Crime of Greatest Magnitude
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22253.htm
That’s the reality of war.
No, that's a war crime.
Even if it is a War Crime...so what? -
So we know the true face of this Israeli state and not fooled by their propaganda.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
So we know the true face of this Israeli state and not fooled by their propaganda.
Uncle, Israel is a different scenario altogther, we need to have deep understanding of their history, religion and culture to understand them better, we should concentrate more on domestic issues we are facing.Now there, is like a Satan vs God having a war scenarios, who is God, who is angel and who is Satan nobody knows, what we know is that the war there has never end and war crime or no war crime is very vague and it is decided by the UN, and you should know better than me where is UN situated and who influence the UN the most.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Israel's Dirty Secrets in Gaza
Army veterans reveal how they gunned down innocent Palestinian families and destroyed homes and farmshttp://informationclearinghouse.info/article22254.htm
UN Envoy: Gaza Op Seems to be War Crime of Greatest Magnitude
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22253.htm
That’s the reality of war.
No, that's a war crime.
No, that's Palestinian propaganda !
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Now the Israelis commercialised what they did during the recently Gaza War. Please see extract from www.independent.co.uk:
"Israel Military condemns soldiers' shocking T-shirts
Sunday, 22 March 2009
It adds that another shirt for infantry snipers is inscribed "Better use Durex" next to a picture of a dead Palestinian baby with his weeping mother beside him. The report quotes one soldier as explaining: "These are shirts for around the house, for jogging, in the army. Not for going out."
The practice came to light following disclosures that soldiers who took part in Israel's military offensive in Gaza complained about rules of engagement allowing them to kill civilians and destroy property. The Israel Defence Forces said yesterday that the T-shirts "are not in accordance with IDF values and are simply tasteless. This type of humour is unacceptable. Commanders are instructed to use disciplinary tools against those who produce T-shirts of this type."
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From an IDF commander:
"We're not doing routine security work or anything like that. I want aggressiveness - if there's someone suspicious on the upper floor of a house, we'll shell it. If we have suspicions about a house, we'll take it down."
"There will be no hesitation," the commander continued. "If it's us or them, it'll be them. If someone approaches us unarmed, shoot in the air. If he keeps going, that man is dead. Nobody will deliberate - let the mistakes be over their lives, not ours."That's fair enough. The IDF is fighting militants that hide among civilians.
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This kind of thing is very hard to judge, especially when fighting an asymmetric war against hamas which employs women and children as soldiers. Obviously there is a small percent of Israeli that enjoy murder or taking revenge on helpless civilians, but the challenge would be how to design rules that ensure the saftey of your soldiers while not killing innocent people? From the kind of tactics hamas uses, any child, woman or civilian can be a suicide bomber. Even if no bomb, its easy to hide a weapon and stab a soldier when he isn't looking. Of course there is still a better way to fight a war than using violence. Tit-for-tat killings ultimatly result in escalation when innocent civilians get fed up of being attacked and join hamas for revenge or protection. With the objective of winning in mind, there a 3 ways to win. Love, respect or fear, with fear being the most inferior method. 1. Love - if the enemy loves you he will surrender without a fight. 2. Respect - if you can win the respect of the civilians, they will be less willing to aid the enemy 3. Fear - this is the inferior method as it adds more fuel to the fire, the ranks of hamas will be flooded with people wanting to get revenge for the death of an innocent family member Before 1 can be achieved, 2 must be met first. The best way is to take control of Gaza permanently and treat Gaza civilians the same as Israeli citizens. From there, improve their quality of living. Hamas will then be starved of people willing to be suicide bombers. Without the help of the people its just a matter of time before it falls apart.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
So we know the true face of this Israeli state and not fooled by their propaganda.
Palestinian propaganda is even worse. Their children are being brainwashed to hate everyone else.
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Palestinian propaganda is even worse. Their children are being brainwashed to hate everyone else.
Can you provide a source to the propaganda? Thanks.
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Palestinian propaganda is even worse. Their children are being brainwashed to hate everyone else.
Can you provide a source to the propaganda? Thanks.
Ah shok Chia,Yesterday i watched National Geograhpy, they showed the inequality of women in Pakistan and also many Arab countries...OMG, a husband can kill his wife, burnt her and even take out her eyes and cut her nose without even afraid of dead sentences or going to jail.
After watching it, i hated Arab men, and Palestinian is not exception. Where is our women rights???
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After watching it, i hated Arab men, and Palestinian is not exception.
Beware of false propaganda.
Don't be easily influenced by what you see on TV.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Ah shok Chia,Yesterday i watched National Geograhpy, they showed the inequality of women in Pakistan and also many Arab countries...OMG, a husband can kill his wife, burnt her and even take out her eyes and cut her nose without even afraid of dead sentences or going to jail.
After watching it, i hated Arab men, and Palestinian is not exception. Where is our women rights???
don't worry, they still have some rights.
as long as they don't show any more of their body than their eyes, they will still have the right to breathe.
the woman who gets punished probably deserve it. being ugly is a crime there.
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"Open Fire Also Upon Rescue"
The Rules of Engagement in Gaza
By AMIRA HASS
Gaza Strip.
"Rules of Engagement: Open fire also upon rescue," was handwritten in Hebrew on a sheet of paper found in one of the Palestinian homes the Israel Defense Forces took over during Operation Cast Lead. A reservist officer who did not take part in the Gaza offensive believes that the note is part of orders a low-level commander wrote before giving his soldiers their daily briefing.
One of the main themes in news reports during the Gaza operation, and which appears in many testimonies, is that IDF soldiers shot at Palestinian and Red Cross rescuers, making it impossible to evacuate the wounded and dead. As a result, an unknown number of Palestinians bled to death as others cowered in their homes for days without medical treatment, waiting to be rescued...
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Originally posted by Ah Chia:
"Open Fire Also Upon Rescue"
The Rules of Engagement in Gaza
By AMIRA HASS
Gaza Strip.
"Rules of Engagement: Open fire also upon rescue," was handwritten in Hebrew on a sheet of paper found in one of the Palestinian homes the Israel Defense Forces took over during Operation Cast Lead. A reservist officer who did not take part in the Gaza offensive believes that the note is part of orders a low-level commander wrote before giving his soldiers their daily briefing.
One of the main themes in news reports during the Gaza operation, and which appears in many testimonies, is that IDF soldiers shot at Palestinian and Red Cross rescuers, making it impossible to evacuate the wounded and dead. As a result, an unknown number of Palestinians bled to death as others cowered in their homes for days without medical treatment, waiting to be rescued...
Why do you keep harping over the Israel Palestine issue? Have you no life?!
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Israeli troops admit abuses in Gaza
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com
Amnesty International urges to investigate war crimes in Gaza Strip
http://news-en.trend.az/politics/foreign
Israel Abuses in Gaza Exposed
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID
UN accuses Israeli troops of Gaza human rights abuses
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Would you like to count the number of beheadings of tourists and Jewish soldiers war crimes and crimes against humanity too? I am sure there are two sides to the story. Don't tell me extremists from Palestine didn't shell Israeli border cities and that is not crimes against humanity.
"Wipe Israel off the map" is considered an act of aggression and it is also a war crime.
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Don't tell me extremists from Palestine didn't shell Israeli border cities and that is not crimes against humanity.
Then Israel should end the occupation to avoid more retaliation.
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PALESTINE
1. The Kuala Lumpur Foundation to Criminalise War (KLFCW) held a special forum on Palestine.
2. In my opening speech I stressed that the war in Palestine is not a religious war between Islam and Judaism. It is a territorial war resulting from the European powers carving out a slice of Palestinian land in order to create the State of Israel.
3. It is grossly unjust for the Europeans to solve their Jewish problem by taking land belonging to the Arab Palestinian to give to the Jews for their homeland. It is grossly unfair that they should transfer their problem to the Arabs.
4. The participants at the forum represented all races, belonging to all religions. There were ethnic European Christians, Chinese Catholics, Hindus, Sikhs, Malay Muslims, Arab Muslims, Chinese Buddhists and many others.
5. They came together because they were moved by the human tragedy that is happening in Gaza, Palestine. That the Palestinian Arabs are mostly Muslims did not lessen the feeling of sympathy felt by the participants.
6. Two doctors from Jordan were present. They had gone to Gaza to show their sympathy and brotherhood and to help treat the casualties. They were not prepared to see the carnage caused by Israeli attacks.
7. The Israeli forces appeared to be using new kinds of shells and bombs which exploded after bouncing off the ground hurling sharp metal shrapnel which cut deep into the bodies of the victims.
8. Many had their arms and legs severed by the shrapnel, while others died when the shrapnel cut deep into their bodies and organs.
9. One man was saved because the shrapnel cut into a small Quran he had in his pocket but stopped short of his chest.
10. Phosphorus bombs scattered white phosphorus all over the victims. The phosphorus sticks to the body and burn as long as there is oxygen in the air. It burns through the skin, through the muscles and through the bones. It is impossible to remove the phosphorus without cutting deep into the tissues and bones.
11. The pictures of decapitated bodies, shrapnel severed arms and legs were horrifying. The surgeons had to operate on stretchers with several operations going on in one room at the same time. There was blood everywhere and yet there was no blood for transfusion.
12. The video also showed Israeli men and women being interviewed. They were quite hysterical, shouting and demanding that the Palestinian children should be killed as they, the Israeli women had lost their children because of rocket attacks by Hamas.
13. The Gaza attacks exposed the horror of modern warfare. No one is spared. The town of Gaza is reduced to rubble and bodies were strewn everywhere. Children were buried under the rubble of fallen buildings, with only their dead heads visible. There were burnt bodies of babies.
14. Professor Gurdial Singh spoke about how Israel could be tried by an International War Crimes Court.
15. Then it was question time. An Englishman voiced his anger that the pictures of the atrocities were not made public in the United Kingdom. He wished that the Jordanian doctors could give their briefings together with the pictures in London.
16. Responding to the remarks, Professor Michel Chossudovsky pointed out that the Western media is owned by a small number of people and they control the news contents. They were obviously pro-Israel and their policy is to promote the Israeli cause against Palestine and Muslims in general.
17. Many of the questions asked showed strong sympathy for the Palestinians. The questions were from all races and religions.
18. Then a young Arab man took the floor. The first thing he said was to emphasise that the Palestinian war is a religious war. Muslims must support the Palestinians because of their faith. There can be no two ways. The Arabs must fight a holy war against the Jews. They must fight because the Jews are the enemies of the Muslims, of the Arabs.
19. I felt uncomfortable, as there were many non-Muslim supporters of the Palestinians in the audience. Making the Palestinian war as a religious war seem to reject the sympathy and support of the non-Muslims.
20. A Chinese Catholic got up to reply that he has full sympathy for the Palestinians who had lost their land, who had been driven out of their country to live as refugees. He thought that the Palestinians were unjustly treated and the Israeli killings of the Palestinians were against all humanitarian values. He did not see it as a religious war but a war against injustice and oppression.
21. I was depressed by the attitude of the young Arab. It seems he was moved only by the hatred of the Jews. On the other hand the demand of the Israeli woman to have Palestinian children killed also exposes her bitter hatred of the Palestinians.
22. This is wrong. Of course enemies must hate each other. But that must not be the reason for the war. Actually it is a product of the war.
23. The real reason for the war is the seizure of Palestinian land to create the state of Israel. The objective of the Palestinians should be the re-conquest of the lost land, including removal of the settlements set up by the Jews. The whole war must be directed with this objective.
24. What I realised when the young Arab vehemently declared that the war is a religious war was that the war would have no end. The objective was to kill Jews because of their religion.
25. On the Jewish side it is the same. They want to kill and destroy the Arabs because they hate the Arabs. That explains their brutality, their targeting schoolchildren, babies and old people. That also explains the diabolical weapons that they use, not just to kill but to cause as much pain and disfigurement as possible.
26. The Israeli leaders, especially the military are said to welcome Hamas rockets. To provoke Hamas into firing their rockets the Israelis blockaded Gaza.
27. When Hamas fired the rockets, Israelis would condemn the deaths, especially of children. The people were angered by the death and demanded retaliation, which the military duly obliged with massive attacks out of all proportion to the damage done by the unsophisticated Hamas rockets.
28. For their part the Palestinians would show the effects of Israeli brutality, the destruction of the towns and the deaths of innocent children. The hatred against the Jews was fanned to red heat, and Palestinians would become ready to kill the Jews in any way they can. They would fire more rockets and the Jews would retaliate with even greater force and brutality.
29. Both sides have now forgotten the reasons for their war. It is like the clan war of old, when for generations the hatred would be kept alive and both sides would want to go on fighting and killing each other.
30. The Palestinians are getting the worse deal in this "I kill your people, you kill my people," fighting.
31. I was asked by the Jordanian doctor, when will this war end. I think it will have no end because it has degenerated into feuds of old, when Semitic tribes fight each other for generations simply because they were traditional enemies. The original reason for the enmity has long been forgotten.
32. If the war is going to be terminated both sides must try to remember the original cause and negotiate for peace. The backers of the contestants should cease providing money and weapons so they will continue to fight. Instead they should urge both sides to discuss a peace not based on who is more powerful but on justice.