GIC invests $14 billion in Swiss bank UBS
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what a stupid question... you think I am paid millions to make that decision?
.... they should be honorable like the Japanese and if they dare to take the public money, then they should ready to kill themselves if they make a mistake... -
Why should it be "not a bad idea" at this moment in time to "buy in some more"?Originally posted by CX:Actually, if UBS now came forward and said that they now believe that 100% of their sub-prime exposure will need to be written off (which is an absurd hypothesis) and they need another 5 billion from GIC, I would think that its not a bad idea to buy in some more.
Ceteris paribus, their business model is, after all, fundamentally sound. Their wealth management business, barring their exposure to CDO, is world class and their brand equity is second to none.
The fact the ECB, Fed Reserves and Bank of England have taken an unprecedented measure to cooperate and inject further funds to boost liquidity would only serve to further compound the impact of UBS' (or any other firm writing off their subprime mortgage losses) hypothetical complete write-off.
Ultimately, the reverse is actually more viable - if the Central Banks remained apathetic by standing by and watch - as it would actually be more beneficial (not that it'd inject substantially more confidence in UBS as an entity; rather, that would make more sense to "buy in some more" under such a scenario than under the present scenario with the Central Banks' coordinated involvement) and logical for UBS to write off their losses in view of the otherwise illiquid market at present which effectively hampers UBS' business operations, investors' confidence and its recovery. -
... double post...
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... the despots should have killed themselves many times over if they are honorable like the Japanese, for their stupid mistakes and for talking as much of Singaporeans' money as possible...Originally posted by CX:So... where should they put their money
... they dare to take so much public money? They should have no qualms killing themselves for their mistakes... -
This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison to draw, compared to what is actually happening with the subprime issue. Microsoft isn't exactly going to have any direct and tangible benefits from having the Central Bank bail them out should they land themselves in such a state, are they?Originally posted by CX:Just a thought: If Microsoft announced record losses following the flop of their latest software products and defects leading to product recalls of their x-box consoles, how do we expect the market to react?
If they announced in the same press release that they had found a strategic partner willing to pump is tons of dollars into the company to make good the losses and bring the company to new heights, would the market react any different?
My answer to both question is "NO"... pple will panic at the sight of bad news and sell, sell sell...
The long term profitability and viability of the company however, is a totally separate matter altogether. -
The central banks are injecting liquidity to restore confidence in the banking system to (hopefully) allow the economy to have a "soft landing".Originally posted by walesa:Why should it be "not a bad idea" at this moment in time to "buy in some more"?
The fact the ECB, Fed Reserves and Bank of England have taken an unprecedented measure to cooperate and inject further funds to boost liquidity would only serve to further compound the impact of UBS' (or any other firm writing off their subprime mortgage losses) hypothetical complete write-off.
Ultimately, the reverse is actually more viable - if the Central Banks remained apathetic by standing by and watch - as it would actually be more beneficial (not that it'd inject substantially more confidence in UBS as an entity; rather, that would make more sense to "buy in some more" under such a scenario than under the present scenario with the Central Banks' coordinated involvement) and logical for UBS to write off their losses in view of the otherwise illiquid market at present which effectively hampers UBS' business operations, investors' confidence and its recovery.
My view is that although I find it distasteful to use tax-payer's money to bail out greedy fund managers who made bad investment decisions, the risk and consequences of banks becoming insolvent is far worse. -
We have a slightly different view of whether the central bank's involvement in the sub-prime crisis is a positive or negative influence so I'm just going to agree to disagree with u on this point or we'll be up all night repeating ourselves to each other.Originally posted by walesa:This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison to draw, compared to what is actually happening with the subprime issue. Microsoft isn't exactly going to have any direct and tangible benefits from having the Central Bank bail them out should they land themselves in such a state, are they?
My view is that negative press releases prompts panic selling that may not actually reflect the longer term viability and profitability of a company.
UBS needs to ride out this storm. That much is obvious. Whether they emerge from it stronger is still a relative unknown. -
Indeed... Those decisions are not ours to make...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:what a stupid question... you think I am paid millions to make that decision?
.... they should be honorable like the Japanese and if they dare to take the public money, then they should ready to kill themselves if they make a mistake...
But we all have no qualms about having an opinion (which is F.O.C)...
Its not that I refuse to see your point but its just so easy to say that everything is wrong wrong wrong and not have a viable alternative view...
In fact, forget viable... How about having just an alternative view instead of just a finger-pointing accusation and to demand that individuals who made difficult decisions commit hara-kiri.
And it wasn't a stupid question. I asked for your opinion. Its really fine if you don't have one. I won't ask u to shoot yourself. -
That's precisely the point I'm contending.Originally posted by CX:The central banks are injecting liquidity to restore confidence in the banking system to (hopefully) allow the economy to have a "soft landing".
My view is that although I find it distasteful to use tax-payer's money to bail out greedy fund managers who made bad investment decisions, the risk and consequences of banks becoming insolvent is far worse.
For simplicity and ease of comprehension, it's hardly rocket science to figure the urgency on UBS' part to write off their losses is less pressing with the central banks' involvement than without it, ceteris paribus. -
That's a story for another day - any well-informed and savvy investor would know where to go for information that truly matters. I certainly wouldn't imagine there'd actually be too many successful investors who could actually get by just by relying on a press ranked 141st in press freedom...Originally posted by CX:We have a slightly different view of whether the central bank's involvement in the sub-prime crisis is a positive or negative influence so I'm just going to agree to disagree with u on this point or we'll be up all night repeating ourselves to each other.
My view is that negative press releases prompts panic selling that may not actually reflect the longer term viability and profitability of a company.
UBS needs to ride out this storm. That much is obvious. Whether they emerge from it stronger is still a relative unknown. -
that is crapz... someone said... "everyone should have an opinion about policies... because policies affect them... " they make bad policies, they make mistakes.... they should be honorable like the Japanese and kill themselves... they are the ones that have no qualms taking massive amounts of public amounts of public money... they must be accountable....Originally posted by CX:Indeed... Those decisions are not ours to make...
But we all have no qualms about having an opinion (which is F.O.C)...
Its not that I refuse to see your point but its just so easy to say that everything is wrong wrong wrong and not have a viable alternative view...
In fact, forget viable... How about having just an alternative view instead of just a finger-pointing accusation and to demand that individuals who made difficult decisions commit hara-kiri.
And it wasn't a stupid question. I asked for your opinion. Its really fine if you don't have one. I won't ask u to shoot yourself. -
Yes... Indeed! So what's your opinion on this matterOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:that is crapz... someone said... "everyone should have an opinion about policies... because policies affect them... " they make bad policies, they make mistakes.... they should be honorable like the Japanese and kill themselves... they are the ones that have no qualms taking massive amounts of public amounts of public money... they must be accountable.... Other than "the entire PAP and all public officers who are doing their bidding should commits hara kiri... "
I happen to think that the long term outlook of UBS is rather positive. The short term dip in their share prices doesn't change that.
Do you think that the fall in UBS share value is irrecoverable? Why? -
U mean u wouldn't trust BBC, AFP, Reuters and Bloomberg?Originally posted by walesa:That's a story for another day - any well-informed and savvy investor would know where to go for information that truly matters. I certainly wouldn't imagine there'd actually be too many successful investors who could actually get by just by relying on a press ranked 141st in press freedom...
Cos the same piece was almost simultaneously being covered by them as well. -
huh? how did you come to the conclusion that "the entire PAP and all public officers who are doing their bidding should commits hara kiri... " ?Originally posted by CX:Yes... Indeed! So what's your opinion on this matter Other than "the entire PAP and all public officers who are doing their bidding should commits hara kiri... "
I happen to think that the long term outlook of UBS is rather positive. The short term dip in their share prices doesn't change that.
Do you think that the fall in UBS share value is irrecoverable? Why?
... are you an extremist?
The leader takes the responsibility or at least the one that makes the final decision om a matter, and especially the leader that have no qualms taking massive amounts of public money, should indeed be accountable for the results... and kill himself honorably... otherwise he is just a scum-bag despot that wants the public money but does not want the responsibility... -
walesa, please try to get out of the armchair critics mold. the sooner, the better is for you. If not you will end up like andrew yippy yapyap.Originally posted by walesa:Try reconciling your hopelessly incoherent logic of judging their track records under the circumstances that their stock price is immaterial.
Just what spin are you trying to sell here? Your argument is getting more self-contradictory and senseless as you try to skirt round your ridiculous propositions.
So do you think Singapore Inc has overpaid for UBS stake? Please comment leh? -
... that is better than someone quoting me as recommending people to sell S$ for Thai Baht and ask me again and again the same question (like the way he is asking walesa now) "when in July did you sell?" Idiot... ask me so many times when in July I sold after quoting me that said I sold in November...Originally posted by Gazelle:walesa, please try to get out of the armchair critics mold. the sooner, the better is for you. If not you will end up like andrew yippy yapyap.
So do you think Singapore Inc has overpaid for UBS stake? Please comment leh? -
andrew, I know you know that we know that you are lying about your investment in thai baht.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Gazelle, are you sure you know what you are talking about and are you sure you are not confused like in the last thread, quote me as saying I bought Thai Bahts in November and stupidly ask me when in July I bought it?
In order to make money as you claimed, you would have to gamble on at least a million S$. That my friend is not call plunge, the marginal change is not even enough to cover the the difference of bid/ask price.
Are you going to tell me that your short the market? If you do, why you are suggesting others to use their saving to BUY thai baht?
Andrew, stop wanking lah./ -
Does Gazelle knows about forex trading? NoOriginally posted by Gazelle:andrew, I know you know that we know that you are lying about your investment in thai baht.
In order to make money as you claimed, you would have to gamble on at least a million S$. That my friend is not call plunge, the marginal change is not even enough to cover the the difference of bid/ask price.
Are you going to tell me that your short the market? If you do, why you are suggesting others to use their saving to BUY thai baht?
Andrew, stop wanking lah./
Is Gazelle making a fool of himself again by making stupid remarks he has no understanding of? Yes
Is Gazelle proving himself an idiot, again? Yes
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I'm still waiting for you to reconcile the difference between the two self-contradictory stance with an affirmative answer, instead of spinning another load of diatribe that skirts and darts round what you're supposed to address...Originally posted by Gazelle:walesa, please try to get out of the armchair critics mold. the sooner, the better is for you. If not you will end up like andrew yippy yapyap.
So do you think Singapore Inc has overpaid for UBS stake? Please comment leh?
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Do you need me to list down all sources of credible press to drive home my point just because I happened to mention one example of what constitutes negative press that should never be taken seriously in the first place?Originally posted by CX:U mean u wouldn't trust BBC, AFP, Reuters and Bloomberg?
Cos the same piece was almost simultaneously being covered by them as well. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Just read his initial post retorting my argument and it's not hard to notice those characteristics you have addressed, is it?
Does Gazelle knows about forex trading? [b]No
Is Gazelle making a fool of himself again by making stupid remarks he has no understanding of? Yes
Is Gazelle proving himself an idiot, again? Yes [/b]
For a start, he has got an unrivalled capacity of self-contradiction that'd put him in a league of its own... -
...totally agree... yes... contradiction... he is very good at that... he can say one thing here and contradicts himself there and has no clue whatsoever...
... in the beginning it was irritating but after a while it became hilarious... -
Talk like a bloody expert when it comes to Barclays, but cant even comment a shi.t about UBS.Originally posted by walesa:I'm still waiting for you to reconcile the difference between the two self-contradictory stance with an affirmative answer, instead of spinning another load of diatribe that skirts and darts round what you're supposed to address...
typical armchair critic.... -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Andrew, are you sure your invested in thai baht and not BUTT?
Does Gazelle knows about forex trading? [b]No
Is Gazelle making a fool of himself again by making stupid remarks he has no understanding of? Yes
Is Gazelle proving himself an idiot, again? Yes [/b]
stop wanking so much, it is not good for your health. -
I wouldn't have to if u had been clear in your earlier post. My point is that the same piece of news was covered by all major newspapers and news channels, hence the general sense of gloom that had negatively affected UBS share prices...Originally posted by walesa:Do you need me to list down all sources of credible press to drive home my point just because I happened to mention one example of what constitutes negative press that should never be taken seriously in the first place?
Its not like the common man will throw his money into a bank that just lost $10 billion if all he's got is $10k. The risks are too high for him and he won't have resources to hold for long term.
Institutional investors however, don't have that constraint. What is 5 years to GIC? Or even 10 for that matter, if UBS is still nicely profitable and paying nice dividends consistent with GIC's expectations of a decent ROI.